Engineering Influence from ACEC

Government Affairs Update for May 21, 2020

Steve Hall, Matt Reiffer and Katharine Mottley from ACEC's Advocacy team joined Engineering Influence for our very first video podcast to give a government relations update on their Rescue, Recover, Rebuild grassroots advocacy campaign and the current status of the PPP program.
Transcript:
Host:
Welcome to another edition of Engineering Influence, a podcast by American Council of Engineering Companies. Today we are bringing a new kind of twist to our podcast. We're in the world of Zoom and COVID-19. We're going to try to do something visual this time and have a government affairs update with our own Steve Hall who has been practically on Zoom since the day started to um bring us up to date on what's going on with the Paycheck Protection Program. I want to give you guys a little bit of an idea of where things stand here as far as the association goes and with our industry on the PPP program. In our latest member survey on May 8th, we found that 88% of respondents reported applying for the program. And 94% of those said that they'd been approved for the PPP program and another 4% are awaiting approval.
Host:
So it was very popular with the industry and 94% let's see here. And just under two thirds, 64% of those firms plan to use all of the loan funding while 22% plan to use some of it and return to rest only 2% right now or are considering returning all of the funds. So it's a program is being accessed by our industry, many other industries. It is a monumental effort by the SBA. This is not an agency that's actually designed to do something like this to take this amount of volume of applications and this kind of money and try to get it out to the economy. It's been going well but there've been issues with guidance. Treasury and SBA have been slow to get some certainty out there with certain aspects of their FAQ. And things have changed over the past couple of days. And Steve, if you want to kind of bring us up to date on, on where the program stands and, and what Treasury and SBA have done and what really, you know, it was going on with the program right now.
Steve Hall:
Yeah, thanks Jeff. Now we're seeing some encouraging developments really over the past week and a lot of anxiety up until now, and it's lingering a bit, but over two issues really. The issue of, of certifying good faith in terms of economic uncertainty, in other words, is, is the firm worthy to, to receive this loan. And I think what we saw released last week was encouraging basically loan holders at $2 million and below are essentially defacto certified by virtue of the size of the loan. And then the guidance goes on to say that for borrowers above that $2 million SBA is going to work with them through a process to help them to to figure out if they can meet that certification threshold, but a much more encouraging tone, a much more deferential tone than perhaps we had seen in, in previous weeks.
Steve Hall:
Where there was a great deal of concern generated about you know, what SBA and the federal government take a very punitive approach to borrowers really outside of what we thought was within the intent of Congress. I think Congress really wanted to be very deferential to to borrowers and try to structure the program as such. So that was a good step on that question of certification and and I expect that we hope we'll be seeing some additional information come out on that. The next issue was loan forgiveness. You know, the core of the program and we did see some information come out earlier this week. You know, the, the application for forgiveness and the kind of data and criteria that SBA is looking for, which gives us a sense of what it was, what it's going to take to get some, most, all of your loan forgiven and some guidance with that.
Steve Hall:
I think we are expecting to see additional guidance, more comprehensive guidance forthcoming. But again, this has been helpful to our firms, to our CPAs, to, to get at least an initial sense of what the agency is looking for to satisfy that question. So, you know, good news over the last week, not a complete catalog of information that we need and where you're hoping to see that relatively soon. And as if history is any judge, you know, it may be that con or SBA and treasury continue to put out guidance in small traunches and then refine that guidance responding to questions from organizations like ACEC. And then at some point we may actually have to go back to Congress if there are structural problems or challenges that are really beyond SBAs per view to to fix where we have to amend the law. We'll do that. But we'll work hand in glove with our members before we do that and work with our CPAs. We've got a lot of very smart people working with us to you know, go through this information and to come up with recommendations that we need to deliver both to the agency and to Congress.
Host:
Because it is a popular program. And I think that the universal call or answer from, from the private sector is that they want it to be a success. So that there's a lot of, you know, it's not a adversarial relationship with, with, but the SBA and Treasury, it's more just informing them of what we need, what we need to actually make this program work as it's intended. So it's good to see that that guidance come out. And again, you know, as we get this information, of course we're putting it out anywhere we can. So we have our Coronavirus Resource page of course, which is on acec.org. It's right on the homepage when you see that. And, and we're making sure to put all this information into our normal communications to members. There's going to be a weekly message coming out from our CEO, Linda Darr. It's going to be focusing on a lot of what Steve just mentioned here and everything's been linked and it's all available for you.
Steve Hall:
And Jeff, just to add to that you know, the education side of ACEC is teed up and ready. We've got a panel of CPAs that will take part in a free webinar. Once that additional guidance comes out, we expect that we'll be well attended and we will redo it as often as we need to and as often as new guidance comes out but you know, but the organization really geared itself around getting that information in the hands of our members as soon as possible so they can make good business decisions. And and we're certainly going to continue with that.
Steve Hall:
And I know that you've been, like I said earlier, you know, you've been busy all day on Zoom meeting after Zoom meeting. We are right in the midst of a larger advocacy push under the Rescue, Rebuild and Recover kind of theme and it's been a virtual grassroots effort. Letters, emails, meetings, Zoom meetings with members of Congress. How many meetings do you think you've been on right now with, with members of the House and Senate with ACEC members across the country?
Steve Hall:
Gosh, I think we're North of total North of 70 meetings so far. And and these are happening. I've been on a few today and I know my colleagues Matt Reiffer, Katharine Mottley have been participating in these as well. And really the message has been coming back has been very encouraging, you know, lawmakers on both sides of the aisle. They get it. I mean, they want, they very much want to support a recovery agenda built around infrastructure and you know, there's lingering questions as there always is about how to pay for it. But a great deal of interest in doing this. I think you know, as you've heard me say before, I think Congress is still in emergency response mode and still thinking near term needs. I think what, what may be emerging as the next package of assistance may actually be built around assisting state and local government agencies, DOD, transit agencies things of that nature.
Steve Hall:
Obviously that's something we're very supportive of, you know, anything that will prevent, you know, current projects from being interrupted or shutting down. We want to be supportive of and there does seem to be an inkling of bipartisan support emerging from this approach. So that may be the catalyst for the next package. You know, as, as Katharine indicated, there's sort of hopeful expectation. We might see something in June on that package and and then hopefully, you know, Congress then switches gears and thanks a bit longer term, you know, in a multiyear recovery agenda, you know, built around what Congress has to do this year. They've got to do a surface transportation bill to replace the fast fact by September 30, and they've got to do a big water package. And the Senate stepping out, they, they have reported all of those bills out of committee unanimously. Which is great to see. And and that gives you know, the congressional leaders in the Senate the option to package all of them together into one big package or to move them separately if they wish, but actually to get something done this year, but they got us, they got to move quickly because the clock is ticking.
Host:
Yeah, it's not in their favor. And you mentioned, you mentioned Matt and Katharine and I think they have joined us, so I'm going to switch over to a view and bring them in. And thank you both for joining in. So we have really the the, the feet on the, the, the boots on the ground here for the PPP and surface transportation effort. So Matt and Katherine, thanks for joining the interview here. Steve was going over, a lot of the PPP work has been done. A lot of the guidance coming out and of course the webinars and the meetings with members of Congress, part of our advocacy program. I mean, I know you've been on some of the meetings as well. How do you think they've gone, this is new, it's virtual instead of going actually into somebody's office and talking to somebody, you have a screen like this where you know, you have maybe 10 people or less and a member of Congress. How, how has it compared to what, you know, the traditional shoe leather lobbying that you guys do?
Katharine Mottely:
You know, Jeff, I think that's a really interesting question. I mean it is a different kind of connection. On the one hand you don't get that face to face. You, you can't really read the body language and get and get sort of that better sense of the story behind what they're telling you. On the other hand, I think it has sort of opened up these meetings to a larger swath of our members. The meetings that I've been on have had, you know, 25 members from the state with their senators and for some of them some of those folks may not have been able travel to DC on a normal basis anyway. So, you know, I think that sort of greater access for both, for our members and for the legislators can be a good thing.
Matt Reiffer:
I would agree with that. In the, in the few that I've been on what's nice is you get the Congressmen or the Senator's undivided attention for a block of time. When you're meeting in DC, almost inevitably you get interrupted by votes or committee meetings or markups or important briefings or something. But particularly for the house members who have largely been back in their districts you know, they're not, they're not getting pulled away into those sorts of things. So you get, you know, 20 to 30 minutes of their undivided attention, which is really tremendous. And there, you know, they are so eager to hear about what's going on with their constituents, where their local businesses. So it was valuable for them to hear not just here's our advocacy priorities, but you know, here's what we're working on. Here's what we're experiencing, here's what we're concerned about, you know here are plans for, you know, reopening our offices or keeping our employees safe. Here's the, you know, here's what we're doing, worksite protocols and safety, you know, just a range of things that they care about. And then, yeah, how are the aid packages that we've already approved working for you? Are they helpful? What do we need to change? Cause they want to know. So this has been really valuable input for them.
Steve Hall:
You know, Jeff, Matt made a really good point there with respect to, you know, how certainly our members reviewed on these calls. You know, because there are great conversations with lawmakers and the lawmakers and seeing each one of those faces on the screen and they're often zoom calls like this. Each one of those faces represents a firm that employs many people. So that, that, that ACC member talking is not really talking just for himself or herself. But for all of the folks that work in the firm and and that reality is not lost on lawmakers and the staff that participates on these calls these, these, these contacts resonate and really do have meaning.
Host:
And it's just not, the meetings are fantastic. So I think it provides a, it's a new way of reaching out and talking to your member of Congress in person, virtually in person. Like I said, Katharine, if you have 25 people on a call, it's hard, you're hard pressed to find, you know, 25 people don't get them into an office. Even, even a, even a ranking where a senior Member, you know, their offices aren't big enough to fit 25 people in normally. So being able to get people on a screen, you know, you get more, more bang for your buck there. But then we're also doing the traditional, you know, letter writing. We're doing, you know, emails to Members of Congress and of course, social media activity. Matt, I mean we, we've, we've topped a significant number of compared to, I think the last major push was on tax reform and I think we've kind of eclipsed the number of, of emails and messages sent. What's the last you have the last tally available? I know, I don't, don't want to spring it on you, but I know that
Matt Reiffer:
I don't, but I can click over and check and get them.
Host:
Yeah, no, that would be great 'cause I know that the number is significant.
Matt Reiffer:
Get you real time information. Hang on just a sec.
Host:
Yeah. that would be awesome because again, you know, on the, on the acc.org website you know, you'll see it right there. When you land on the page, you'll see advocacy and that takes you to the R3 - Rescue, Recover, Rebuild advocacy site where you can click to tweet. It has issue sheets. It has social media resources for, for grassroots activism. And it's really a one stop shop for everything that you need to take part in this.
Steve Hall:
You know, Jeff during tax reform. And Katharine knows this. I mean, we generated something on the order of 6,000 contacts with lawmakers and which was far and away bigger than we've ever done. And I think when, when Matt last checked this, we were rapidly closing in on that amount. So this campaign is going to go into the summer and I have no doubt that we're going to Go well beyond what we did previously.
Katharine Mottely:
And you know, Steve, just to add to that, I've heard comments from a couple of our members who remember that advocacy effort during tax reform and part of what they've communicated back is that we didn't realize that we could have such an effect. We didn't realize that our engagement through ACC and contacting our members of Congress could result in such a good outcome. And so a lot of them would have remembered that and taken it forward to this time. And they see that what they do and say and the emails they send can make a difference.
Matt Reiffer:
I just checked - we've got 2,060 member firm advocates who have taken action and delivered just about 6,400 messages to the Hill.
Steve Hall:
That may be a new record right there.
Matt Reiffer:
Tremendous outcome.
Host:
And again, yeah, this is, this is, this is in its early stages. It's going to evolve as the situation evolves. You know, we're calling for of course a focus on an infrastructure based recovery agenda. Of course that's going to be focused again and Steve, like you mentioned, FAST Act reauthorization and WRDA - two pieces of legislation that are must do's must pass bills and they're already teed up. Each chamber is working on its own respect of tracks and as you noted in the Senate, they've been marked out unanimously. There's no real bipartisan schism when it comes to WRDA and surface - they are a lot closer than people think. So the, the continued push by our grassroots to get this through is going to be significant.
Steve Hall:
It's going to be critical. Jeff, not to interrupt cause we've, we're, we're hoping to see how spills emerge in the month of June. And so you know, it'd be great if we could double those numbers in the month of June and and give some additional push behind house lawmakers to, to at least get this out of committee in the month of June and get them ready for floor consideration.
Host:
Absolutely. Well we covered PPP, we covered kind of the advocacy campaign and the, and the work you guys are doing on, on, on the individual member meetings, but then also the webinars and everything else that's going on. I mean it's, it seems like every day there's, there's, there's another webinar or three webinars that we're running to, to make sure we're covered. Anything else to think of as we enter kind of an odd Memorial day weekend?
Steve Hall:
Ah, you know, just, just the, the issues we've talked about and then side issues, you know, we're working to make sure that issues relative to from overhead are addressed and protected. You know, there is a, you know, regulatory action on the part of the department of defense that would require firms that receive forgiven loans to provide their federal clients with a credit to offset those loans. We don't think that really was the intent of Congress. We've pushed back and we actually have developed a letter that a number of organizations are signing on to, to help us push back. So that's an ongoing priority and something that Matt has been working with the rest of the team on. And as well as similar efforts in issues and potential concerns on the transportation side with respect to state DOTs and the Federal Highway Administration. You know, in addition to the big issues in Congress, there's a lot of granular issues that we're working on with respect to those issues and you know, tax issues and the tax deductability questions that are outstanding relative to firms that receive PPP loans and something that Katharine has been working on.
Matt Reiffer:
Yeah, I was going to say Katharine and I were a little late coming onto this call because we were just coming off a small firm roundtable with about 40, 45 participants, a really great forum for information sharing and helpful for us to listen to and hear what firms are experiencing. And yeah, there are a lot of interest in both of those issues. A lot of those firms took PPP loans, are interested in forgiveness, interested in the tax component of that as well as the potential impact on their overhead rates in terms of loan forgiveness and how that may be treated for federal state contractors. So yeah, very timely and yeah, very interesting.
Host:
Yeah, it's nonstop with government affairs right now. So I know it's we're coming on to about half an hour. I know you guys have a busy packed schedule, so I really appreciate you all taking the time to to appear on a kind of an oddly I guess just figure we live on Zoom now. Might as well tried to do a video interview instead of just the the, the good old audio podcast that we do. So thank you for being on. And again, this is Engineering Influence brought to you by the American Council of Engineering Companies. Katharine, Matt, Steve have a great Memorial Day weekend. Stay safe, stay healthy and and stay engaged with us 'cause we are off to the races. Just go to acec.org click on advocacy. It's right there on the homepage. It'll take you right there to the R3 advocacy page, all the resources that you need to take advantage of the grassroots campaign we're running. It's all there for you and just take advantage of it. So thank you all for being on.
 

Announcing the ACEC Life Health Trust Loyalty Credit

 
Engineering Influence welcomes Pat Feyen, the President of the ACEC Life Health Trust, to discuss the new loyalty credit that will be sent to participating firms in August.  
Transcript:
Host:
Welcome to another edition of the Engineering Influence podcast by the American Council of Engineering Companies. Today we're very pleased to be joined by Pat Feyen. He is the President of the ACEC Life Health Trust and we wanted to bring him on to talk about a couple of things, especially now in our current COVID-19 environment. And also we haven't really had the Trust on since our last in-person meeting in Chicago. This is a great opportunity to kind of reintroduce the Trust for those who weren't at the conference or, or didn't hear that episode. So Pat, welcome to the show first and tell us a little bit about the Life Health Trust.
Pat Feyen:
Well, thank you Jeff and thank you for having me. I want to start with recognizing that on May 1st the Life Health Trust celebrated 55 years of supporting ACEC member firms and honored, privileged to continue that role. We have a clearly stated mission to provide healthcare benefits, solutions and services to support the business objectives of ACEC member firms and the health and wellbeing of the firm's employees and their families. We are really excited about the opportunity to recognize the loyalty that's been demonstrated over the years from our member firms and customers. And I guess the combination of the fact that we've got a singular purpose and that's to bring value to ACEC member firms. Mission statement. I shared the little do that to support their business objectives. And then finally, in light of the coven, 19 challenges to our industry and the country. The life health trust board of trustees have approved a loyalty credit totaling $11 million that we will give back in the form of a reduction of August premium invoice.
Host:
That's a big number, 11 million. And that's, that's big news. Especially for firms today who are undergoing a cash crunch and are doing their best to minimize expenses and to recoup as many costs as possible to keep their businesses afloat. That, that's really good news. What kind of an impact is that going to have on firms, especially the firms that really make up the majority of, of the trust membership?
Pat Feyen:
Yeah, that's a great question. The average credit will be right around $8,000, but and there is a range, fairly wide range depending - based on how long the firm has been with the Life Health Trust. So by way of example, a firm with 25 employees would receive up to a $10,000 credit. A firm with 75 employees, you know, up to $35,000 credit. And then our larger firms around 150 employees could receive a credit of as much as $70,000.
Host:
Yeah. So not insignificant by any means. This credit. So I mean, that's significant. As of August 1st, 2020, all active firms will receive the loyalty credit. Of course, now we're coming into the later part of May do you have a timeline that kind of you know, the firms can take advantage of this and plan for when this credit's going to come into effect?
Pat Feyen:
Yes, we do. It's a little fluid, but the week of the 18th of May, we will announce the loyalty credit. On or about June 1st, we will provide the firms and their brokers and consultants the exact amount of their credit that will show up in the August invoice.
Host:
And I also understand that there's going to be potentially some webinars and some information in a website that'll be tied to that for active life health trust members to be able to get the information they need on that and to access information online.
Pat Feyen:Yes. Well, we'll be partnering with ACEC doing our own mailings, websites, LinkedIn announcements, webinars to make sure that this is well communicated and understood and that we're available to answer any questions.
Host:
Absolutely. And we'll do our part to get the information out there. Really that's great news. That this is happening. I think that it shows, again, the benefit of the trust and why it's so popular with our members. And of course you know, it's, it's always one of those, you know, things that's a secret weapon within ACEC. Are our three trusts and the Life Health Trust is definitely one of the most popular that, that I hear about from our membership. And it really just is, is extraordinary that you're able to do this credit is, have you, have you ever done it? Oh no. I was just going to ask if you had, have you ever done anything like this to your knowledge in the trust's history?We've reduced premiums in August of 2007 after converting all of our membership from a previous carrier to United Healthcare. We enjoyed some significant savings because of moving to United Healthcare and passed that along to our member firms. But that would have been I think the only time in other time in history where something like this has happened and I think this is a partnership. It's important. The loyalty to the Life Health Trust from our member firms really creates the opportunity to invest in the health and wellbeing of the firm's employees and families. As you might imagine, the longer members remain on the trust and trust insurance plan, the greater the opportunity, our value added services can have an impact on health and thus healthcare costs, which of course, we pass back those savings over time to our member firms. So that was the thought and the basis for a a loyalty credit. And we've got many, many firms that have been with us a long time and they're the ones that will be at the higher end of the range of credit.
Host:
Yeah. And you do have firms that have been with you for a very long time. I mean, what's the average term that you know, a smaller mid range engineering firm has been with the trust.
Pat Feyen:
Oh, we lost track of when many of the smaller, most loyal firms started when we converted to United Healthcare. And that was 13 years ago. So our records go back 13 and, but those firms have been with us 30 and 40 years.
Host:
Yeah. So there, there are firms that, that match that a 55 year anniversary that you're...
Pat Feyen:
yeah, exactly.
Host:
So let's take a look, a broader view of this because you know, healthcare costs, of course, you know, we are in a medical healthcare pandemic right now. What are the other national, the large national healthcare insurers doing what are, what are some examples of, of what you've been seeing in the marketplace in response to a COVID-19?
Pat Feyen:
Well United Healthcare announced earlier this week that they are providing one point $5 billion in support to all of their customers nationwide. It takes on many forms like waving of copays not increasing premiums. The component of their plan that's most similar to ours is a 5 to 20% reduction in employer premiums to be reflected in the, their July invoice. But they've got a lot of programs and services and resources that they're extending and waiving costs. You know, that they have incurred fewer costs as of late because of the deferral of services knowing that there's a significant reduction in elective procedures. We have not seen that yet. If in fact that's the case and when we get another couple of months down the road, you know, then we'll consider you know, an additional return or reduction of premium to our member firms. Again, we're here to provide value to the member firm, not to make a lot of money. And if we're overcharging, then sure, the trustees will once again honor our mission statement and support our firm's business objects.
Host:
Yeah, absolutely. Because again, the loyalty credit that you announced today is not tied to the lower costs is just kind of based on the, on like you said, the the commitment to serving the members, especially in this very troubled time. So that's, that's really good to know and I know that you will be taking part. I know the Life Health Trust will be taking part in sponsoring some upcoming education on the ACEC education page. We have of course, part of our larger Rescue, Recover, Rebuild effort which is ongoing right now. We have been we've gotten the great and and, and very helpful support of the Life Health Trust to a sponsor, some webinars, some informational webinars, which will be free to members. And that has now up on our website at www.acec.org.
Host:
You'll find a link to our webinar series with the R3 initiative. And of course that first webinar coming up is going to be on May 21st. It's Controlling Healthcare Costs Through Work Site Wellness with Lindsey Simone. And that's going to be at three 3:30PM to 4:30PM on May 21st. And the information to register for that webinar's going to be up on our website. Just go on acec.org. You'll see it right at the top of the page, Pat. Is there anything else going on with the life health trust that you want to update our members on? At this point, the loyalty credit is of course the biggest news item to report. But anything else new happening that you'd like to to share?
Pat Feyen:
Yeah, that would be one thing. And that's the cause we know telemedicine utilization has, well, it's more than doubled during the pandemic. We have telemedicine services and of course provide access to physicians for general medicine needs you know, from the chest up. But we've added recently telemedicine services for behavioral health. Again, perfect timing, given the anxious times that, that we're, we're living in an addition dermatology and back here. So when I continue to encourage the utilization of that during, during this time when we're isolated,
Host:That's, that's really good information, especially now with the increased access and interest and of course, behavioral health, telemedicine of, of being able to remotely meet with someone, especially now in this time of quarantine and the different stresses and demands that are put on people for remote work. And just, just the, the nature of being locked in for so long. So that, that's a very important resource that, that people should take advantage of.
Pat Feyen:
Yes sir.
Host:
It is it is some really good news coming out of the life health trust and really appreciate Patty taking time out of your day to update on this. And again really just, just keep tuned to Life Health Trust www.aceclifehealthtrust.com for more information and follow out on, for their you know, follow them for updates and announcements for the loyalty credit. And hopefully we will have you on after the loyalty to credit takes effect, you can kind of give a status report on how it's going a couple months down the line. We'd love to have you back on the show.
Pat Feyen:
I would welcome that opportunity. Thank you, Jeff.
Host:
Well, thank you and Pat, stay safe. Stay healthy and and look forward to speaking to you again. Thank you for thank you for coming on.
Pat Feyen:
Okay. Thank you Jeff.
 

The U.S. Economy: What Lies Ahead? A conversation with Dodge Data & Analytics' Richard Branch

Richard Branch, the Chief Economist for Dodge Data & Analytics stopped by the program to talk about the current state of the U.S. economy during the COVID-19 pandemic and what lies ahead for the A/E/C sector.

Leading Your Firm Through the COVID-19 Crisis with Michael Cooper, President of HED

ACEC Vice Chair and President of HED Design, Michael Cooper, stopped by the program to discuss how engineering firm executives can lead their firms through the COVID-19 crisis.  
Transcript:
Host:Welcome to another edition of the Engineering Influence podcast from the American Council of Engineering Companies. Today. We are very pleased to be joined by Michael Cooper. He is the president of HED Design out of Southfield, Michigan. We had Mike on the program a few months ago to talk about leadership and of course that was a very different world than we are living in at the time. Now we find ourselves in a socially distanced remote work focused pandemic, which changes the way that leaders lead their firms, especially when they can't physically be there with their teams. So having Mike on to talk about this and really how to approach it and how do you deal with it is, is really important topic. So Michael, thank you so much for coming back on the show and, and hopefully you're safe, healthy, and remote.
Mike Cooper:Gotcha. Thanks for thanks for having me back. Yes. Happily we are safe. We are healthy, we are remote and and like a lot of people, we are working through our circumstance as as best as we can. I'm hoping that we get through it quickly and painlessly. That's for sure.
Host:How has it been with your firm to go from you know, your day to day normal operation to this new reality that we're living in? Was an easy switch to, did you already have a lot of remote working going on or, or was it a completely new thing?
Mike Cooper:No, I think the answer is yes and yes, we did have a lot of remote working going on. We've got projects all over the country. We have people who are traveling routinely between our office locations. And so there's a, there's a a base level amount of remote work, travel and such that is always happening and probably been increasing for us. And then and then when, once, once we're in this situation, I think like a lot of people were forced with having to go to a virtually 100% you know, remote work environment overnight. And I'm happy to say our, our people were able to adapt to that very quickly. The technology was in place to be able to support that. And, and in talking to my peers at firms around the country, I'm hearing a similar story and maybe simply chocked up to you know it seems, it's probably easier to do these kinds of things than it seems when you don't have any other options. And I think for most of us, we really didn't have other options as, as it became apparent that that working remote and staying home was going to be the way to protect our people. That's just what you have to do and you have to find a way to do it.
Host:Yeah. It's just being forced to adapt and you know, that creates a lot of opportunity for creativity, finding work arounds. And just making it happen. And that's what happened to us. I mean, you know, as an organization, ACEC is very, you know, focused on physically being there. We have a very tight knit group in the office. And to go from one day essentially coming into the office to the next day going to centralized. It was a shift and it worked because we had no other choice. But it does after a while, you know, you get caught into this Groundhog day kind of thing. And I know one of the, one of the things that you always talk about is looking at that big picture from a leadership perspective. It's that whole idea of, of you can't be focused on the day to day, still gonna get that big picture view and, you know, what, what are your thoughts about, you know, what a leader should do to stay focused on the big picture?
Mike Cooper:Yeah. I think you've, you've got, you've got to start with, with identifying some core principles that, that that, that you're going to, that are going to ground you and that you're going to use moving forward. You know, there, there's no playbook for a global pandemic where we're, we're almost overnight. We see the revenue drop, we see our customers having difficulties projects going on hold and the economy really struggling. And so, you know for me, you start out with the understanding that that safety remains and is always job one. You know, you talked about people before we were in this circumstance. You know, our success, the success of our organizations is driven by people. And I will tell you that through the circumstance that we're currently in the same holds true. And let's begin by saying that, that, that the safety of our people, the health of our people is gonna remain job one.
Mike Cooper:And then we've got a, we've got to look at two things and we've got to look at them simultaneously. We've got to look at the current situation we have to look at today. And we've got to find a way to work together to get through, let's say the next four to six months. You know, we know that we've got a you know, we've got to safeguard the physical and the psychological safety of our people. Got to help them get through the stance because there's a lot of anxiety be being created here, whether it's financial anxiety or job stability or health anxiety or the anxiety of being at home with a young family when, when school is, is suspended, whatever that is. We've, we've gotta be paying attention to our folks. We've gotta be working to position our firms to weather the storm and to come out on the other side.
Mike Cooper:You know, I think in the short term, we're looking at cashflow impacts as we try to weather revenue reductions and, and so we've gotta be looking at how we can position us and make it through the circumstance too so we can get back doing what it is that we do. And then we've got to find ways of minimizing the impact of this to our staff. We've, we've made huge investments as organizations in our people. You know, the, the cares act and, and the stimulus initiatives that the federal government has, has has, has rolled out are and will continue to be very helpful to our companies. And we've got to work to make sure we're taking full advantage of that and doing everything in our power to try to get through this, try to get through it safely and try to get through it, you know, minimally impacting our people.
Mike Cooper:And then while we're doing that, we've got to remain committed to the mission of the organization. We will get through this. And, and we have to be thinking about the future and thinking about how we position our firms so that when we do get through it, we are prepared for what the markets will look like that and what our firms will look like. And, and because things are gonna change and we've gotta be prepared to get back to business. But get back to business and potentially a new or modified marketplace a new reality for us.
Host:Yeah, that's the thing. I mean everybody's kind of in this area of uncertainty together because we know that there's going to be a change. We know this is going to and can go on forever, but the world of that will, you know, we'll walk into after this is over is going to be quite different from the one that we had just a few months ago. The market's going to be different. The marketplace, the demand, the focus is going to be different. And having that focus on mission of an organization is very important because as people are working decentralized and remotely, they still have to be driven by that organizational mission. And at the same time they're also working in a different way because the way that they work is just fundamentally changed. It's not just physical distance, but it's also the fact that work is omnipresent because it's right there at your doorstep. It's either in an office or your living room or kitchen table. Timeframes are different. Challenges are, you know, technology focused, but not the question of work life balance, all things get thrown into the mix. As a leader, how do you manage that? How do you address that and try to get your people still focused on mission but still effective in getting that mission accomplished?
Mike Cooper:Well, I think we start out let's start out by, by understanding, you know, sort of where we are and how, how work has changed for us now, right? So remote work is now the rule, not the exception. And so we've got to make sure that we understand what impact that has to our staff, to our partners, our contractor partners, our clients. The greater reliance on technology says that we've got to adapt to what, what always has been in person activities and in our world and design in engineering, you know, planning of projects and quality assurance are, have always been things that we get together and do. So now we've got to rely on our infrastructure. And that means you know, enhanced security and redundancy. Greater reliance on the cloud.
Mike Cooper:We've got a we've got to address challenges that are not solved through technology. You know, like I said before, schools are closed. So what do you do for folks who are home because their kids are not in school. And even if the stay at home orders are relaxed, it doesn't solve all of it, those problems. So we're going to have to look at a more flexible environment. What we're seeing now is project work. Perhaps it's being done out of sequence, right? If field activities are when we can still advance projects, but we have to do it in different way. The way that we work through tasks and projects previously is not necessarily the way we're doing it today. And then you brought up something which I think is really important, which is work life balance when you're working in your life are happening in the same place.
Mike Cooper:It is hard to have balance. And so we've got to set expectations for people to help them. Because it can't be, you know, that work, it happens, you know, from six o'clock in the morning until midnight because your computer happens to be open and it happens to be right there on your dining room table or you know, when you're walking by every 30 minutes, we've got to help them pull through that. So you know, Jeff, step one for me is what's let's build priorities as a leader. Let's build some priorities for ourselves and what was I said before. We're going to start out with safety first and make sure we're focused there. And then let's make sure we're educated. Excuse me, as from leaders. Are, are we, are we looking at, at what's being put out by the world health organization, by the CDC so that we understand what is happening with the situation, which is evolving.
Mike Cooper:Let's make sure we're being decisive because things are changing quickly. We need to make decisions move. Maybe we need to move on to the next thing. And these are all things I think that we directly to, how do your, your question of how we help our staff you know, because you know taking care of our company and ensuring our future viability, prosperity or relevancy is one of the best ways that we can take care of our staff. And so you know, understanding the macro implications for the business for the market sector. So as I said, and this is going to change things and let's make sure that we're understanding what forces are acting on our business, both, both internal forces and external forces. You know, as an example, the construction industry and what's happening there is greatly impacting what's happening in the design industry.
Mike Cooper:You know, we're not a construction company, but I can, I can tell you that what's happening out there with construction companies is impacting us. So it's important that I'm aware of it and I understand it. I said earlier, you know, build a, build a plan to get through the next four to six months and follow it week to week. Like it's a project. This is the most crucial time for our organizations. And so we've got to make sure that we navigate this period. So we get back to doing what it is that we do. And then now we start to transition into, okay, so, so for our teams, let's make sure, number one, we're leveraging our teams. All of us are smarter than any of us and so let's communicate our plans and let's make sure that there's buy in so that they feel like they're owners of the plan and their stakeholders because ultimately it's our people that will drive the plan.
Mike Cooper:Any plan that we put together is going to be driven by the individuals. And so let's make sure that our individuals, that our staff is on board to make sure they understand what we're doing, why we're doing it, how we're doing it. Make sure we're over communicating in a world like we're in today. You over communicate, you be positive, but be realistic. Credibility is everything right now because there's so much out there. Being, being delivered to people. There's so much news and so much chatter, so much commentary. Our staff has to trust that we're, what we're delivering to them is, is the honest, current way to information that is available. Again, so that they, that they're, they feel part of what's happening and they can help us navigate this. And then for leaders, one of the big things that we forget is we have to manage ourselves.
Mike Cooper:We feel stress. We have the same work life balance other people have. We need to stay focused. And if we don't take time out of our day, if we don't exercise and we don't get outside and walk around the block and we don't take a minute to get away, then we're not going to be effective at our jobs either. Yeah. We, we, we talk about this with our staff. We've got to also remember this when it comes to ourselves. We don't do anybody any good. If we're strung out and we're, we're running on no sleep caffeine, trying to do everything. It's, you know, we've got big responsibilities, but we've got to take care of ourselves to make sure that we can do those things successfully.
Host:Absolutely. I mean, yeah, you said there's no guidebook for this. There's no playbook that says this is how you manage during a pandemic when you have not only the work disruption of not physically being able to be there, but then also this greater, you know, overarching threat of this pandemic kind of looming over everyone's heads and everybody has their own reaction to that. And that all kind of feeds in to the day to day work life and then, and then the, you know, the personal life. And it's, it's interesting because, you know, as a president of a firm, you have a a whole umbrella of challenges and concerns that you have to deal with on a daily basis. And a vice president or even a manager who is, you know, now in charge of a team has a, has a number of direct reports is you know, the client lead on some projects, you know, they might not have the benefit of experience of going through a trauma like this. What are some of the, like the top line things that you would recommend or you would give advice to someone who is in an early leadership role? And has to deal with this? Both. Both, you know, we kind of addressed the team, but almost managing up of setting expectations, talking to from leadership and, and just making sure that, you know, they're adequately meeting their responsibilities in this, this time we find ourselves in.
Mike Cooper:So yeah, it advice to them, you know, number one boy, a heck of a time to take out a new leadership role. But it's vitally important. Yeah, and I, and I, I would start you know, by understanding how vitally important those those supervisors are right now. Because the, the, the engagement, keeping our people engaged, keep you know, keeping them feeling like they're part of the organization, we're continuing to move forward when we feel so isolated is so vitally important to our ability to continue to serve projects and clients. So the top line things you tell them, the newer supervisors, number one you know, communicate, communicate, tell us what you need. Tell us what's going on at, at, at, you know, at ground level from, from your perspective. Let's make sure we're talking about this.
Mike Cooper:Let's make sure we're talking about what's necessary every day. So that, that, that number one may feel like we, we, we care about what they're doing. They're people and, and them and what they're going through. And, and, and so number one is if in managing, you've got to communicate and, and let's make sure we're talking. And then secondly you know, there's this notion of, of, of truth to power. You've got to be truthful. If there are issues you've gotta, you gotta you gotta speak up and you gotta talk about them so we can solve them in any world. You know, issues don't get easier to solve as time goes by. But right now in this circumstance, you, nothing can fester you, we've got very little room to retreat right now. And so if there's an issue, we've got to jump on it right now.
Mike Cooper:And my, my advice there would be, you know, be as transparent and honest as we can be and if there's an issue, let people know there's an issue and let's talk about how we resolve that issue so that we can move on to the next one. And then the last thing I would say is, is make sure that you are engaging your staff every day. Reaching out, you know, getting groups of people together, reaching out to them. And this is especially true perhaps for the younger, for the newer staff to the organization. They don't know as many people. They're not as knowledgeable about the company and they're going to feel more isolated than others will be. And reaching out to those folks in particular. Well and making sure that they feel like they're like, they're still a part of the organization, that we're still thinking about them and we care about them. We'll, we'll pay big dividends down the line because those folks, while while learning today and building their knowledge base today, you know, those are going to be the leaders of our firms tomorrow.
Host:Yeah. Those are the three bedrock kind of qualities of leadership and communication, transparency and engagement. And they're important every day, but more so in a crisis. And it all boils down to that. It's just being open, telling your people what it is and you know, how things are and then being open to hear their concerns and, and, and being engaged with your team. And then also the leaders of the firm that, that you report to. Those are those, you know, it's kind of interesting because it's, it's fairly you know, like I said, it's the building blocks. It's kind of the basic thing. It's just, it reinforces how important those building blocks are because they just get amplified in a situation like this.
Mike Cooper:Jeff, in times like this, you do, you go back to, to the fundamentals blocking and tackling and you know, you'd be amazed at how far a personal phone call to just say, Hey, how are you doing? I was thinking about ya. How much that means to people. When, when they're not seeing their coworkers and they're feeling a bit isolated and they're worried about the circumstances that, that are, that are at play, those, those fundamental things, they mean a lot right now. And I think if we get those things right we, we end up with a team of people that are all pulling the same direction, working us through the circumstance we find ourselves in.
Host:Absolutely. So let's, let's, I guess, flip the coin and talk about, since we've already covered kind of the firm side, the employee side, let's talk about the client side. You know, they're having their own issues. They're having their own challenges in dealing with the pandemic. How would you suggest a firm right now deal with client expectations, client communication, the critical things that need to happen to keep the business afloat. You know, that's, that has its own see of challenges. But what are some of your thoughts on that?
Mike Cooper:Well, I think let's, let's recognize that if you're talking about, you know, clients and projects, it's a little bit more challenging to be, to be doing this when we can't be together in, in one place. So, you know, sort of going back to the old mainstay of communication, you know, we're telling our project teams, make sure we're getting, you know, that we're pulling together now multiple times a week, sometimes every day. Just to make sure that people are connecting and, and, and that communication wants to include the client. We want to make sure we're talking to our clients on a very regular basis. We want to understand what their situation is. Because like ours, their situation is also changing rapidly. And we want to understand what they need and cause again, because their needs are also changing. So because we asked them today doesn't mean that a week or two down the line those things haven't changed.
Mike Cooper:And so let's stay in contact with our clients. Even if it's just to say, Hey, how you doing? You know, what's going on? How can we help? What do you need? Those things go a long way. You know, they're trying to maintain their focus as well. So we want to continue to find ways to support their projects, to support their initiatives, to navigate through these challenges. Even if we have to, as I talked earlier, maybe take a different road or go a little bit out of what a normal sequence would be. But let's make sure that we're doing what we can do to support them, to advance their projects, to help them get through this to continue to show value. You know, I in the big picture, you know, by continuing to show value, by continuing to support our clients it makes it easier for them to continue to keep us engaged with them and it makes it easier for them to continue to pay for design services.
Mike Cooper:And I think, you know, we're in a world where where we have financial challenges, we're going to have cashflow challenges. So, you know, being deemed valuable and being relevant and being of service, you know, it not only does it help from a marketing and business development perspective, it helps the financial position as well. Because of our clients continue to pay us, then we can continue to to meet our obligations, to take care of our staff and to be able to continue to serve them. And then Jeff, we've got to also pivot and start thinking about life after Covid-19 and help our clients work through that, you know, trends, worker expectations adapting and preparing and you can look at just a couple of examples that I think most of us can understand. You know, the, the, the education institutions, the institutions of higher education you know, they they often will use larger lecture halls, right?
Mike Cooper:They'll bring hundreds of people into a space and that space will be infused with technology and they'll have a professor or sometimes more than one talk to a large group of people. And we, we went very quickly from that to an online platform. And, and the question is, are we going to go right back to the large gatherings like we had before or is there going to be something else? Are we going to be maybe looking at more of a hybrid? Are we going to be looking at maybe smaller groups, more online or remote learning? I tend to think that, that we will to some degree. And so you know, there's an opportunity for us to work through some of these issues with our clients to be able to help them understand what's possible, what options they have, how their spaces, how their facilities, how their systems can support different types of, of, of learning.
Mike Cooper:Things that maybe we haven't seen, but we will see. And I think likewise, we're seeing it in offices all across the country. We, you know, newer offices see, you know, a lot of benching of staff. They see collaboration spaces, they see social spaces built around people coming together, sometimes plan, sometimes spontaneous because you know, idea generation and innovation happens when people come together in groups. Well, when, when, when we go back are we going to feel the same way? Are we going to expect a little bit more distance between individuals? Are, are we going to gather the way what we did before? And, and I expect again, that there are going to be some changes in, in sensibilities and expectations. And this is an opportunity for us to work with our clients to talk about how space can be reimagined because we now know some new things. We've experienced something altogether. People are thinking differently. And how can we respond with systems, with space to, to, to get people comfortable and to, and to, to, to create productive spaces in a new world where there's a new way of thinking and and, and we've got we've gotta be able to, to address the now, but also pivot towards what's coming and, and have those conversations with our clients.
Host:Absolutely. And you know, it's an interesting time because it's a challenge, but at the same time, as you mentioned, you know, looking towards a post COVID-19 reality, there's also opportunity here where you can help your firms or help your clients rather look to the future and uncover or try to figure out what they might need addressing this new world. And you know it's one of those old, I guess the old adage where, you know, in, in the midst of crisis there's opportunity and it's really important for firms to look at how can we grow, how can we change, how can we adapt to this new reality we find ourselves in? And that kind of ties right into the way that leaders need to be managing the actual business side of the firm to position themselves so that they can emerge out of this crisis, you know, not just whole but potentially with a new opportunity for business growth. How do you manage that side of things? The actual management side of, you know, the keeping the lights on and, and the and the business afloat kind of situation - in a situation like this?
Mike Cooper:Yeah, I think the first thing we have to remember, you know, it's okay to think, you know, to think that we're in crisis mode, but let's not forget to run our business the way that we know how we have to continue to run our businesses because we will get through this. And to your point. So number one is let's, you know, let's remember that we are problem solvers, right? We are, we are methodical thinkers. This is what we do for our clients. This is what we do every day. And let's take a step back. And number one, we know that, that our world has changed our financial picture, our revenue, our workload. Let's model what we believe is happening and to the best of our ability. So let's see what we believe the impacts are and let's build a plan that we can implement to begin to get us through.
Mike Cooper:Let's align the organization to the new reality. And that means you know, let's focus on clients and projects. You know, I unfortunately, and I, and I feel terrible about saying this, but we have to make adjustments in our organization and in our staffing in order to in order to align with, with the work that our client, that our, our clients are bringing us in the projects that we have. Let's curtail non essential initiatives and investments. Let's make sure that we're, we're focusing really on the core business, on our projects, on our clients and less on some of the other things. And, and remember Jeff, in these circumstances, it's better to be because there's so much uncertainty. It's better to overreact a little bit than it is to under-react if you overreact and you've got to pull back a little bit early you know and, and, and let go of some things that were done, that's fine.
Mike Cooper:That's, that's easy to ease up a little bit. But if you under-react, then you end up in a mode where you're constantly trying to catch up to what's happening to you. And it's very difficult to be in that situation. So, you know, my advice there is to take decisive action. We don't exactly know what's coming. We don't have a crystal ball, but take decisive action and hope that we can know that we can retreat from that sooner than later. But if you wait too long you sometimes pay a price for doing it. And that, and then I think had on, you know, you've got to address the immediate challenge. And for most of us it's cashflow. So let's make sure that we are taking advantage of the stimulus funding that's been made available to us. Let's make sure we're utilizing our lines of credit.
Mike Cooper:You know, effectively and appropriately if we have cash reserves is now the time to begin to think about using those ask for release for some of the larger expenses. It might be rent, it might be insurance but see if, if there's an opportunity to get some sort of a relief, this is something that we're all going through. And I think what, what people may find is that our creditors are more open to working with us than maybe we think they are because one of the things they're experiencing, people are just, they've just stopped paying their bills. They've just stopped. And, and if, if somebody, if you're approached and say, listen, I want to continue paying, but can we modify the schedule a little bit? Is there some way we can get some near term relief? You know, you might be surprised at how many people be open to a discussion like that. In fact, I would tell you with respect to expenses you know, ask for deferment for as much as you can get to shore up your cash position today. You know, you don't know if you don't ask.
Host:Absolutely. Yeah. Especially in this world. To be in that situation.
Mike Cooper:Oh, for sure. You know, I think, you know, it, he continue to adhere to what he has has worked. You know, we have proven processes and procedures for planning projects, coordinating quality assurance for monitoring their performance of our work. For business development and marketing strategic hires that may advance the organization. We should continue to run our business and continue to adhere to those proven processes that got us here. You know, we should still do the things we know, lead to success, continue to do them for sure. We're doing them differently. You know, we've got, we're, we're doing them remotely, we're doing the through technology, but that doesn't mean we have to abandon what we know works. And then I would tell you start planning for a return to normality. And share that with the staff. Let your people know that, that you are looking ahead to when things returned to normal.
Mike Cooper:And this isn't the way it's going to be in perpetuity or we are stuck in the mud right here. We have to work our way out of this, but there is a future for our firms and for our industry. And, and we need to prepare our, you know, for, for our offices to accommodate people. Again, we have to prepare for new ways of working and let's bring our people into that discussion. And, and not forget about strategy and planning. You said earlier you know, you talked about a circumstance like this and opportunities that are born out of it and there is no question that opportunities will emerge. What are they what are the sectors that will recover the fastest? How can I use resources? I may have today that are under utilized to build capabilities in new sectors. You know, how can I leverage where we are today to, to prepare myself for the opportunities to come? And those are the things that besides helping our businesses and our organizations prepare, those are also the things that will help keep our people engaged. It'll give them rallying points. You know, we, we, you don't want to think about all of the challenges and all of the negative things all day long. It's also nice to look ahead and think about some of the opportunities and the positive things that will, will come. And so let's make sure we aren't losing sight of that and that we're talking about those things too.
Host:Yeah, absolutely.
Host:All extremely good points and good information for business leaders and those leaders who are, you know, on that ladder towards management or executive management. And it's, it's, it's an interesting time. It's, it's challenging time. There is opportunity to be found, but I think taking into consideration everything that we talked about, it's just that leadership that is boiled down to being open, being engaged and being transparent, looking for opportunities, making the tough decisions. You know, it, that's really what will drive companies forward. Hopefully this does end rather soon so we can get back to the normal business at hand. But without question one way or another we're going to be changed. Definitely because of this pandemic. And the industry is going to have to adapt to it. And hopefully, hopefully we have leaders who are taking these steps and taking this advice to heart so that the industry can come out of it stronger because of it.
Mike Cooper:So yeah. Well, you know, our industry has been blessed with strong leadership for, for decades and decades. And I think we know, you know, those who have been through these kinds of situations before, you know, let's say the great recession of 2009, 2010, you know, they, they know we're going to get through this and they know that we've got to do what we need to do. Now. We've got to take the actions we need to take to make sure that we get through, but you know, the sun will shine again and we will be back doing the things that we do. To your point, we may be doing things differently, there may be a different environment. And, and we need to be mindful of that. You know, our, our industry is ever changing and ever evolving. But, but we'll get there if we do the things we know we need to do to get through to, to get to the future, we've got to take care of today. And if we do that we'll be okay.
Host:Absolutely. Well, again, it's been a fantastic bunch of insights from you, Michael on leadership and, and this is a great topic and I want to revisit it hopefully under clearer skies and and more normal operations than what we find ourselves in right now. But I really appreciate the time and the thoughts that you have on the subject. It's just great to have them and hope that you stay safe, stay healthy and that your firm is comes out thriving and poised to take on whatever comes next.
Mike Cooper:Well, I appreciate that. I hope the same for you and I very much look forward to speaking again when we are maybe through this and on to the other side.
Host:Absolutely. Well, I will see you virtually the Saturday maybe at the board meeting.
Mike Cooper:And yes, that'll be interesting.
Host:And hopefully sooner rather than later in person. So Michael Cooper, Michael Cooper, he's, he's he's great on multiple levels. He's a great leader and his insights on leadership are wonderful to hear. Roy w thank him for being on the show again today. And we will see you next time on our next edition of engineering Influence from the American Council of Engineering Companies.
 

A CONVERSATION WITH LANGAN’S CEO, DAVE GOCKEL ON COVID-19 RESPONSE AND THE USNS COMFORT

Dave Gockel, CEO of Langan, stopped by the show to discuss his firm's work to prepare New York harbor for the arrival of the USNS Comfort, and his firm's response to the COVID-19 pandemic.  Read more about Langan's work in New York City here.  

Coronavirus Special: Government Affairs Update for 4-9-20

Engineering Influence welcomed Steve Hall and Katharine Motley back on the program to get an update on COVID-19 response legislation and new guidance from the SBA and the Treasury.
References:
Treasury and the Federal Reserve announced a new lending program for small and mid-sized businesses, with additional details here.
The Treasury Department released Q&A guidance yesterday on the Paycheck Protection Act, and made further updates which were just released this evening:Paycheck Protection Loans: Frequently Asked Questions. 

Business Continuity and Adaption in the Time of COVID-19

Sean Goldwasser, Vice President and Chief Operations Officer for Black & Veatch's Water Business in North America, joined the podcast to discuss how the firm is adapting to the challenges of conducting business in the age of COVID-19.
Transcript:
Host:Welcome to another edition of Engineering Influence, a podcast by the American Council of Engineering Companies. And we're coming to you today with another part of our ongoing series that really focuses in on the big new story of the, of the day that we're all living through, which is the coronavirus pandemic and specifically how the industry, the engineering industry, is dealing with this really unforeseen and unprecedented challenge. And today I'm very pleased to be joined by Shawn Goldwasser. He is the Vice President and Chief Operations Officer for Black and Veatch's water business in North America. And Sean really brings some good perspectives from the industry as far as how Black and Veatch has adapted the main concerns that they have related to the coronavirus pandemic, both internally from a business standpoint and external also from a client side. And Sean, I really appreciate you coming on the show to provide your perspectives here. I guess first off, let's just talk about, you know, how are things where, where are you working now and, and, and kinda how is the, how's the environment that you've adapted to.
Sean:Jeff, thank you for the opportunity. Yeah. So, so like a lot of people today I'm working from my house. I've got a family of four, a college student and a high school student, and we're all sharing bandwidth and they're doing their home studies. And as I'm doing work from home and, and it's, it's a good problem to have, I'll put it this way. So Kansas City both on the Kansas and Missouri side, it's been relatively mild here. We don't have the same size of populations that you're talking about. And some of those coastal areas we still do have international travel covers, but again, not to the same level you'd expect to see in California or New York, that type of thing. So the actual number of cases that have happened here have been quite a lot fewer if for no other reason than just because the population is smaller as well. I would say that people in the community at large seems to be dealing with it with relative calm but with the same concern and uncertainty you see everywhere.
Host:Absolutely. And how's your firm dealing with the the change to remote work and and how are you dealing with the work still with the clients on sites?
Sean:Yeah, so that's actually been as much as you can say some things like this is success, right? I think for our discussions today I'm going to be positive because think having a positive attitude is important. But I also want to make sure we say there's a lot of people that are going to become, if they haven't already become seriously ill and some people are easily going to lose their lives over this. So I don't want any of my positive attitude to trivialize the very nature of what this is. But I think having a positive attitude and looking at the bright side and what opportunities are as important for this. We've been looking at our response to this essentially unprecedented event in sort of a three part approach because you've got to break it apart into something that you can get your arms around. You know, first and foremost we're looking at, well what do we need to do to best ensure the safety of our professionals?
Sean:That includes effectively people and their families, right? Cause if professionals get ill, families get ill. That whole thing unwinds the same thing extends very quickly to our clients. So we moved to a work from home model very quickly. You know, once you've got that basic safety issue, reasonably taken care of, not perfected, but regionally taken care of, then we're talking about, well how do we adapt now that people are in their homes, can we continue to function and how's that gonna work? So what technology are we employing as a business to allow the nature of the work that we do that is usually in normal traditional office spaces and in client spaces. How does that work in a, in a world where face to face contact isn't prudent. And then once we've gotten that stabilized into a functional level, then we start talking more nearness about what does that mean to the longer term business here in the mirror, the mid and long term of opportunities and, and to make sure that the clients continue to get their needs met. That's the important part as well.
Host:Absolutely. And especially in your sector, which is so critical because it is essentially critical infrastructure and an essential role dealing with water, water pipe, you know, water networks ensuring that people have continual, uninterrupted access to clean water. That we're dealing with water management properly. I mean these are things which are, they need to be stepped up. Not this is when you put the pedal on the gas instead of slowing down.
Sean:Equally true when it comes to power, telecommunications and oil and gas, other aspects of the businesses that we serve in terms of critical given infrastructure just as true.
Host:Absolutely. I mean this is, this is really where the value of what you do comes into play because people relying on those public services to stay active and open. I mean I, for one when I went into the grocery store and I noticed all the water, you know, flying off the shelves and my mind was like, well, you know, this is the water systems are staying on. But then the thought crossed my mind, what would happen - God help us - What would happen if there was some lapse or breakdown in our critical infrastructure, like our power, like our water systems and what would that mean for communities and for regions and being able to pivot to a work from home model, a remote, you know, socially distant model while still enabling the clients that you have in the water space and in, in the public infrastructure space to get their job done. That an in such a short time. I think that's the most amazing thing that you're able to pivot so quickly is, is really impressive. And, and, and must be, you might be you know, writing, writing the manual as you, as you live it.
Sean:Yeah. I'm, I'm afraid to get too cocky with that because the universe has a way of humbling people that get that way. You know, it, it hasn't been perfect, but it's been pretty good. I will tell you we have, we didn't, we didn't make up how to respond to this overnight. Right. There were things that we had in place. Not, I wouldn't say that we anticipated this kind of an event cause we didn't. But from a business practice standpoint, we engage in something called business continuity planning where we're really more looking at what happens if the professionals can't in the Kansas City office couldn't come to work because there was a fire in the building that day. But what if there was an earthquake in Los Angeles and the professionals couldn't get into that office. And that day our business continuity plans talk about how are we going to respond if that happens.
Sean:We weren't really thinking about it from the standpoint of everybody in every office globally needs to work remotely. But as it's happened, as it happens, the things that, that we had put in place to mitigate these risks have served us very well in terms of remote working tools and network connectivity. We use a lot of video conferencing. We used it before on people's individual machines. Well that actually serves, there's no substitute for face to face contact, but it served us very well. So when I look at things like things, again, things that we didn't anticipate to be used in this, but our, our strategic plan talks about working in new ways, being rapidly evolving and highly innovative. We were really thinking about that from the standpoint of business disruption and how businesses changing evolve over time. When I look to what this has resulted in the need for us to do, those things are just as equally important as we respond to this crisis as opposed to just changes in business.
Host:Yeah, absolutely. And I, I think the the important lesson there is regardless of the size of the firm doing that business continuity planning doing that crisis management exercise and having a plan in place and being able to have something to rely on in cases like this is so critically important. And out of curiosity, how, I mean, how, if you, if, if you can go into detail on this, I'm not sure, but you know, how, how frequently does Black and Veatch reassess over time It's continuity plan in, your experience, you know, is it the kind of thing which was done on an annual basis, biannual or sooner so you can keep, you know, keep that fresh.
Sean:Yeah, there are aspects of it that I probably shouldn't share with you or couldn't share with you, but this is a fair question to ask. And it so happens that I am responsible for this business continuity process within the water business anyway. And we look at it yearly, every year and we look at what did we say last year and what would our response be given the tools, systems, practices and demands we have in front of us. And if the event happened this year, what would be different? Our offices changed. Our needs changed. Digital risks can change. So it doesn't, once you have something in place, it doesn't take a lot to update it and it's proven to be pretty important to us.
Host:Yeah. I guess the main lesson is to get something in place and then just don't put it on a shelf but, but keep it out and refresh it once in a while so that you can quickly pivot and move to a, you know, put it in action. So that, that's really important for I think at all executives understand the importance of that. So I mean, from an internal perspective, it seems that you had a plan in place, you're able to act on it from the external side, the client facing side. How has this impacted or, or created opportunities potentially to apply your expertise into areas related to really the situation right now with the, with the pandemic, not just healthcare of course, because this is widespread. There are many other areas where, where you know, agencies and, and, and utilities and public sector clients need help.
Sean:Yeah. I would say there's probably a, what comes to mind anyway as a sort of a two part answer to your question, there's the ability to work with your clients, which are our long-term business partners. These are entities and people that we've worked with for a long time on these critical human infrastructure issues. Their needs are changing as well. What's coming at them is coming at them very quickly, both in terms of real technical and delivery challenges and the public perception issues. We're working with a lot of water entities that are having to go out while having to not having to choosing to go out and be very public saying, don't worry, your water system is not at risk. This is not a waterborne illness. It doesn't represent a risk of disruption of service. There is no real risk of that, but the public procedure to be when it becomes a problem for those clients, so working with them to help understand what that means to how the communicate it is useful. We've been sharing some of our tools and practices with them because we are pretty good at working remotely because we travel. A lot of our business people travel across different sectors. Our clients don't always have that same structure. So their ability to work remotely and be dispersed is different than ours is. We've talked a little bit with some of the clients about how to adapt in near term and being remote because not all of them have the IT systems in place to do this kind of thing.
Host:Oh no, I was just going to save that. That, you know, that kind of goes to the idea that we always say if, of course a normal times of you know, engineer's and their client, that relationship, it's that trusted advisor relationship. It's not always just you know, the direct day to day of either designing or maintaining or acting in support of a utility and making sure that things work on time. It's also providing that leadership, that experience and best practices to help their clients understand and approach problems with solutions. So that's, I think that's a good example of that.
Sean:And those who had been a lot of our initial conversations, not all by any means, but a lot of our initial conversations with clients talking about, well, what, what has this crisis to you as an, as an, as a client, as a different business? What does that done? What new challenges is it causing you to have to face, you know, in some cases we're going to have solutions to that. In some cases we're going to help you work for your solutions to that. Some of those are relatively simple. Some of them are not.Host:In certain circumstances like this. And I think you put it very well that it's managing perception and it's helping the clients understand the best way to communicate something that you're fighting. The idea that PR perception becomes reality and people might react incorrectly in crisis situations. Largely have you seen an impact from you helping your clients communicate the fact that you know, things are gonna happen. You know, things are still going up. You turn the tap water is still going to happen. You don't have to worry. That doesn't involve water. You know, has that seen success in your mind?
Sean:I think so. I think most of our clients were reasonably well along the way to solving those issues. I don't know that that was the most pressing issue facing them. I think for most of our clients, the more pressing issues are how do they maintain business continuity. The issue of public perception is real. It very much is real, but it probably was not as much of a threat to their business as the disruption of not being able to work in the same way as they were used to working with working under I think is probably a bigger threat. Absolutely. And then some instances, you know, if you're, if those clients is, supply chains are disrupted, that kind of thing. That's, that's a much more, that's a much more serious challenge. You know, and it's causing some, some new things altogether. Some new things that's not very specific, but we, we talk about one of the things as an example.
Sean:I mean there's, some of this is run of the mill and some of his brother mundane, but some of it's actually a little bit sort of potentially pretty exciting. You know, one of the things you keep hearing about is the testing, right? We talk about testing, well we, the news talks about testing for this virus and the number of test kits that are available and the duration of time it takes to get results. One of the things that public entities across world, not just the U S are looking at is how do we know when we've peaked? Right? That's a key question here. How do you know when you've peaked? And if you, if the metric for that is the number of tests you can run, but the test kits are limited and the analytical capacity is limited. Is there a different way of doing it?
Sean:But one of the things we were already working on is a business and still in an experimental stage where essentially data analytic side of sensors and I'm not a technology expert in this kind of thing, but we were looking at sensors that could be put in wastewater streams to test for certain pathogens. And with the idea being, could you test for the presence and concentration of pathogens in a wastewater stream? And when we apply that kind of concept today, what if we were able to take that same technology, apply those sensors to wastewater streams and be able to track the presence and quantity or relative presence of this pathogen, COVID-19, the virus in a wastewater stream that would eliminate the need for the public health agencies to have to go test every single person to then go know what, what is the path? Are we peaked on a curve or not, because at least use that wastewater stream data to say has a given location peaked? It wouldn't tell you anything about individuals, but it might help you make good public health decisions at a city or state level. That's still in development. You know, we're not looking - I don't think it's realistic we'll say, we'll roll that out tomorrow. It's not that kind of thing, but it's a real technology. So as we were already working on that we've converted to see, can we apply it to this?
Host:That's a, that's a great example of the use of and the importance of data. And it's not just the collection of the data, but it's, it's just the interpretation and how can you apply different technologies that are being developed to different challenges. And that would be, you know, I could, I could immediately see how useful that would be for a governor or for, you know, FEMA or the CDC to get a better regional or, or scatter a map of, of potential concentrations of a pathogen. Not just COVID-19, but anything. If you're able to use those sensors and leverage that data in a way where you can assist policy makers making decisions it's a perfect example of applying a technology to a different problem, and adapting it to meet it.
Sean:Yeah. Other examples like that where we're sort of looking at things that we were already trying to put in place. Things were already exploring, you know, something else we were trying to do. I was telling you earlier about the, the company focused on being rapidly evolving and looking at that from a different way of being a disruptor in the business. We've got something we call our incubator and we use that as a way to try to draw out new ideas, whether they're directly connected to our core businesses or whether there potentially somehow tangential to that. And using that to find partners that are, again, not necessarily part of our normal supply chain to see could they come up with something clever and interesting that disrupts a given business that comes up with a new idea. We've got some press releases out now actually that are reflective of this. Trying to find, are there other partners that have ideas about how, some idea that they have that could improve our, our society's ability to deal with this virus.
Host:Yeah. I see that front and center on your website with the ignite X code 19 response accelerator as, as,
Sean:And our growth accelerator. We can put money into that and find ways to collaborate.
Host:Absolutely. And that's, that's, that's the power of just, you know, getting, I, it's great to see because a firm like yours can can play that pivotal role of connecting someone with a good idea and turning that into action. And it's a good example of the private sector innovation kind of, you know, playing a large role into responding to situations like this because you can move quicker. And you can present solutions faster than, you know, let's say the government would be able to and you'll be able to provide the government the solution that they might've been looking for and not even knowing that they actually needed. So that, that is great.
Sean:One of the other things we're looking to do here is to see how we can in a more traditional sense probably, but how we can be a part of helping mitigate one of the potential real risks that we're facing from a healthcare industry and standpoint. And that is you see the news for New York city and none of this is critical of New York city that are facing a huge wave of numbers coming at them. But you see the news stories that have a hospitals and emergency rooms jammed with people and people lined up in hallways. They're just absolutely being overwhelmed with the number of cases coming in. Both have terms of COVID potential COVID-19 patients plus our normal load of people that are just sick for other reasons. Somebody breaks their arm, that kind of thing. You know what, what we find, I think we're seeing is that the healthcare systems understandably, are not set up.
Sean:The physical infrastructure is not set up to deal with the numbers of people you have to triage to make that work. And also you have a secondary risk when you put that many people in proximity, even ones that are coming in for a different reason may end up becoming infected due to the proximity of the people. So is there a way to look at creating these modular temporary hospital setups? We were looking at that right now. Modular, rapid modular health system where we could go essentially augment existing health systems, hospitals and put a, you want to think of it like a treatment diagram, a flow diagram, put a module for additional physical infrastructure to allow for triage ahead of the hospital emergency room to alleviate some of that difficulty. That's something that we're working with some of our private partners and potentially in government agencies with to see if there's an opportunity there to go provide that assistance because we have the infrastructure experience, building experience and process and technology experience to help in those arenas.
Host:And that's, that's something which is going to be I think, increasingly important, not just in this circumstance but in, in as, especially from the policy side in Washington, we start talking a lot more about resilience in term of in terms of essentially everything, social infrastructure, physical infrastructure, responding to potential disasters, manmade or natural and having that capability to assist you know, public health in responding quickly it could help change the way that we respond to future disasters which is of critical importance.
Sean:And I think your point about responding quickly really is one of the key pieces. Any of these entities could decide that they need additional triaged capacity ahead of a given medical facility, but normal practices would take years to get that put in place. We don't have years to get that put in place. You know, if this is going to be effective and mitigate the risks to people in a system that could easily become overwhelmed with patients, it's going to have to be done quickly.
Host:It's going to be interesting coming out of this and, and kind of looking ahead in the crystal ball about how Congress and policymakers are going to be looking at this. I mean there's talk of course about the committee that's already been drawn up, but the relevant agencies that deal with our industry, especially in the House side with Transportation and Infrastructure, they have jurisdiction also over FEMA and the Army Corps of Engineers. It's going to be interesting to see how they, how this opens their eyes to these different aspects of the need to move quickly, to move rapidly. And what kind of systems are in place or could be in place and to create the flexibility for companies like yours to be able to partner with agencies to really get these things from the testing phase or, or the drawing board into rapid implementation. And that'll be something that I'm sure we'll be looking at from ACEC National's perspective. And of course, you know, regionally from the state level and local. So that's, that's a really important thing. Is there anything else that you are kind of working on right now that could potentially be applied to this or any other kind of situation of national concern?
Sean:I think the thing comes to mind for me at the moment in response to that question probably has more to do with the longer term implications of what this pandemic is going to teach us all about how position, how to prepare, how to be able to respond to something that you didn't see coming. Because again, certainly there are people that have been warning globally about this type of a pandemic, but that's been going on for a long time. What is the opportunity for us as a business but for society at large and for our clients as well to look at, okay, what can we learn from this and what would we put in place to allow us to be flexible and responsive and resilient? That resilience discussion is probably one that I think will play very strongly. It will be very important for our clients in the future and for us as well as a business. Right? Absolutely. A lot of what we did, it hasn't been perfect, but it's, it's served us pretty well and having the ability to arrange yourself in a way that provides resilience is probably going to be increasingly important and better understood moving forward.
Host:Yeah, I mean today's emergency is tomorrow's kind of manual for best practice too. So the work that's being done now, like I said, it might not be perfect, but it's working can be the testbed for a future response, which is know critically important for everyone. From the public sector, you know, policy side down to the people who are going to be receiving the the care where there's going to be, you know, health care or, or disaster recovery or, or what have you.
Sean:And even if we take it outside the realm of public health and just think back to the providers of infrastructure, you know, the, the power generation, the telecommunication providers, water providers, all that kind of thing. The, the cost of providing resiliency measures for yourself and you can do it upfront before there's a crisis can be quite a lot less expensive than dealing with the crisis where it prevents you from operating.
Host:Right. Yeah, absolutely.
Sean:We'll see an improved understanding of that and then increased willingness to spend reasonable amounts of money to achieve better resilience.
Host:Absolutely. And, and, and knowing the past work that was done in previous, previous legislation on the Hill moving towards that the pre-disaster mitigation work you can lower the cost. It's always cheaper if you can do it on the front end than if you're forced to do it on the back end and if the engineering industry and firms like yours can get in on that conversation at the start, help shape that policy work, it can lower the burden for taxpayers and speed up the process. And it's that focus on pre disaster mitigation, which is so important.
Sean:I agree. Very much agree.
Host:Well, Sean I really do appreciate you coming on the show. I think that your perspectives both the firm-wide from Black and Veatch and then also individually from your position in the firm in the public public sector side and the water side is critically important for, for our audience and for our members to hear. I would say enjoy a nice weekend coming up. I hope you can get outside a little bit. I, it's a, it's a daunting challenge these days with, with separation - social distancing.
Sean:Yup. Well we'll, we'll find a way, right? There's way to do that. Able to get outside enough to stretch our legs and keep our bodies. Well, I appreciate the ability to talk to you today and your listeners on this podcast. I think it's an important discussion to be having at the level of our industry and I think there are meaningful things we can learn from this and take forward to make it to improve society in general at large.
Host:Absolutely. Absolutely. I think there is a, there is a, there is a very bright silver lining in the storm cloud. And I think that together industry-wide, we can learn and we can improve from this and, and come out stronger for it. And, and the work that you guys are doing at Black and Veatch is definitely helping to make that a reality. Keep us apprised of any new developments. We'd love to have you back on but thank you so much.
Sean:Very welcome, Jeff. Thank you. Thank you.

The Chairman's Corner - Engineering During the Coronavirus Pandemic

ACEC Board Chair Mitch Simpler stopped by the program today to discuss the new world our industry finds itself in with COVID-19 and how the engineering industry is adapting to meet the challenges ahead.