Engineering Influence from ACEC

Get to Know Your ExCom: W. Art Barrett, II, Chair-elect 2021-2022

In a new interview series, we profile our incoming Executive Committee class who will be taking over officially at our Annual Convention and Legislative Summit later in the Spring of 2022.  
To start our series, we welcome W. Art Barrett, II, our Chair-elect for 2021-2022, who will succeed our current Board Chair, Robin Greenleaf.  
Mr. Barrett is a Senior Vice President of Gannett Fleming, Inc. in Baltimore, MD.
He served as a Vice Chair of ACEC from 2018 to 2020. He is an ACEC Fellow and serves on the Planning Cabinet as well as participates on the Transportation and Federal Agency and Procurement Advocacy (FAPA) committees.
He has served on the ACEC Maryland Executive Board, as Chair and National Director, as well as the ACEC/MD PAC Champion.
Mr. Barrett is a member of the ACEC/PAC Chairman’s Club. He is a member of the ACEC Senior Executives Institute (SEI) Class 2018. He was recognized as the ASCE Maryland Engineer of the Year and has served as President of both ASCE/MD and the Engineers Society of Baltimore.
He holds a Bachelor of Science degree in Civil and Environmental Engineering from Clarkson University.

Asserting Your Value as an Engineer with Derek Clyburn

In a wide-ranging interview, ECS Limited and ACEC North Carolina's Derek Clyburn joined the program today to talk about the need for engineers to assert their value to clients in a competitive market.  

The January 2022 Economic Update

Every month, ACEC's Private Market Resources team produces a video outlining the top monthly trends for the A/E industry.  Here's a condensed audio podcast of that report.  Here are the top three things you need to know for January 2022.
 
 

An Interview with Rep. John Katko (R-NY)

We were honored to welcome Congressman John Katko to the program to discuss his work on infrastructure and his vote to approve the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act in the House. 

December 2021 Economic Update

ACEC released our latest monthly video economic update. Each month, ACEC Vice President of Private Market Resources Erin McLaughlin analyzes the latest public industry data and provides insights for the engineering and design industry,
Here are the toplines from this month’s update:
The Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act (IIJA) could add $132 billion and 82,000 jobs to the engineering and design sector, according to newly released estimates from the ACEC Research Institute and Rockport Analytics.
Total design and construction is up 7.5% from January through October 2021 over the same time-frame last year, per U.S. Census Bureau. That category remains driven by private residential spending which is up more than 24% over last year.
The economic growth outlook was downgraded in the latest National Association for Business Economics (NABE) survey. Respondents still expect economic growth and an increase in GDP, but point to inflation and vaccination challenges as obstacles. 
Supply of goods is expected to normalize in the first half of 2022, a majority of NABE respondents say. As engineers design for additional building for IIJA projects, this is especially important for construction materials in our industry.
Inflation won’t come down to 2% until the second half of 2023, NABE survey respondents predict. Two percent is the Federal Reserve’s stated goal, and respondents name supply chain bottle necks as the largest factor expected to keep inflation above that mark through the first half of 2022. Looking longer term, respondents said rising wages was the biggest factor over the next three years to keeping inflation above 2%. Wage pressure is one of the key challenges of the current engineering and design industry specifically.
The video series is one of ACEC’s resources for media and members, which also includes ACEC’s popular Private Industry Briefs. The briefs provide analysis on five key markets: Commercial and Real Estate; Intermodal and Logistics; Energy and Utilities; Health Care and Science+Technology; and  K-12 & Higher Education.
In March, the ACEC Private Market Resources team will hold a symposium on the commercial and residential real estate market in Scottsdale, Ariz.

A Conversation with Carey Smith, CEO of Parsons Corporation

We were pleased to welcome Carey Smith, the President and CEO of Parsons Corporation onto the program for a conversation about leadership, diversity in the engineering industry and what Parsons is doing to help Build Back Smarter with the newly passed Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act.  We were equally pleased to welcome our own CEO, Linda Bauer Darr to host the interview - chief executive to chief executive.  
Transcript:
Host:
Welcome to Engineering Influence, a podcast from the American Council of Engineering Companies. ACEC's strength lies in its member firms and the diverse set of markets those firms operate in to serve the interests of their public and private sector clients. And it's always great to have the opportunity to bring on one of those firms to spotlight their work and really look at what they are doing to improve their communities and the world around them. And I'm pleased to bring one of those shows to you today.
Host:
I am pleased to welcome to the program Carey Smith, the President and CEO of Parsons. Parsons is a leading provider of technology-driven solutions, focused on the defense, intelligence and critical infrastructure markets. And they've been in operation for more than 75 years. Parsons provides technical design and engineering services and software products to address their customers' challenges, and they have capabilities in cyber security, intelligence, missile, space, connected communities, physical infrastructure, and mobility solutions.
Host:
Now Carey Smith joined Parsons in 2016 as President of the Federal Solutions business. She was promoted to Chief Operating Officer in 2018 and President and Chief Operating Officer in 2019. She was unanimously elected Chief Executive Officer of Parsons Corporation by the board of directors and appointed to the position in July, 2021. Now, prior to joining Parsons, Carey held a series of progressive leadership roles within the defense and aerospace industry. She holds an MS in electrical engineering from Syracuse University and a BS in electrical engineering from Ohio Northern University. In 2018, she received an honorary doctorate from Ohio Northern University for her outstanding contributions to the university and the field of engineering.
Host:
Now, interviewing a chief executive, sometimes it's best for me to take a step back and to allow a chief executive to interview a chief executive. So I'm also pleased to welcome our President and CEO Linda Bauer Darr to move us forward and take the mic. Linda, the floor is yours.
Linda Bauer Darr:
Great. Thank you, Jeff. I'm happy to be back on the podcast. I need to do this more often. You're doing a great job. So kudos to you, Jeff. Carey, we are so excited to have you in our offices. I think this is the second time in the short amount of time that you've been on board as the CEO of Parsons. It's been since July, I think now, right?
Carey Smith:
That's correct.
Linda Bauer Darr:
That you came on board and, it's a pleasure to be working with you. We're excited to have you here. So you're a CEO now - how did that come about? You know, you're an engineer, you're a CEO. What brought you into engineering? And, and tell me a little bit about how you made it all the way up to the top ranks of such a, such a significant company as Parsons.
Carey Smith:
Sure. Well, thanks first, Jeff and Linda, I'm pleased to be here and I appreciate you hosting me today. I'll start off. My dad kind of got me into engineering when I was really young. We had, I have one brother, one sister, he wanted all three of us to be engineers and one of us decided to be an engineer. So I went into engineering and one of my first experiences was working as an intern at LTB Steel in downtown Cleveland, really got hooked on the industry. Then when I graduated college start off, uh, with IBM, which subsequently became Lockheed Martin through acquisitions and had some great experiences. One of 'em I would highlight was being one of the first woman flight engineers to fly with special operations forces. So it's kind of in my blood, I would say. Um, and just an exciting field. It's an opportunity to make a difference.
Linda Bauer Darr:
Wow. That that's, um, there's so much there. I know we have a lot to talk about today in a short period of time, but I would love to just take a second to dive into that a little bit. So why was your dad so infatuated with engineering if he wanted all three of his kids to be engineer? So was he an engineer?
Carey Smith:
My dad was an engineer.
Linda Bauer Darr:
What kind of an engineer was he?
Carey Smith:
He was also an electrical engineer. So I followed in his footsteps.
Linda Bauer Darr:
Who did he work for? What kind of work?
Carey Smith:
He was with Morgan Engineering. So they built cranes for steel mills.
Linda Bauer Darr:
Out of Ohio,
Carey Smith:
Out of Alliance, Ohio.
Linda Bauer Darr:
Okay. And then you said that you were one of the first female flight engineers on a special operations mission.
Carey Smith:
Yes.
Linda Bauer Darr:
What what'd you do?
Carey Smith:
So at the time we were changing analog cockpits over to digital cockpits. So my job was basically to design the display formats. And then when the test engineers, when they were up flying, I was the flight test engineer. So I would sit between the pilot and the co-pilot and I would teach them how to use the new digital display systems.
Linda Bauer Darr:
Do you have your pilot's license as a result of that?
Carey Smith:
I do not, but I'll tell you, I've always thought about getting one.
Linda Bauer Darr:
Yeah. Something tells me that that's not beyond you and probably it's gonna be on your agenda for the future. Um, and then you went from IBM, which became Lockheed Martin. Obviously that's a thing in this business. I actually started out years ago in a company called EG&G that later was purchased by and you know, way down the road AECOM. So, you know, that's my only claim to the engineering profession before I came to ACEC and, um, man, you know, it's, uh, you never know where you're gonna be the next day. It seems
Carey Smith:
Like the that's absolutely true. It's spent a lot of consolidation in the industry.
Linda Bauer Darr:
It's really picking up. Um, that's another that's for another podcast though, Jeff, we'll try to stay disciplined. Um, so let's talk a little bit about diversity and inclusion. I know that that is a passion for you. It it's a passion for me. It is also a passion for ACEC and it's - we have five planks of our strategic plan, core strategic goals. And, and that is certainly one of them. Um, and you know, it's interesting trying to describe to people what ACEC sees kind of its unique lane in diversity and inclusion because we feel very strongly about STEM programs and bringing young people into this space. But, you know, traditionally ACEC has really been for the business of engineering and often focused on the leadership in engineering firms. You don't come in as a leader, you know, you don't come right outta college and become a leader.
Linda Bauer Darr:
It's something that evolves, but we feel really strongly about getting involved earlier on in the game for engineers that are on that track, right? That are on that path to become CEOs. So you are one of very few female CEOs of engineering firms, you an engineer, and that's not always the case. I mean, some of your colleagues are people that came into the profession as attorneys, or maybe they had a business development background. Um, so, you know, tell me a little bit about how you're taking kind of, you know, the, the perch of CEO of Parsons and moving the ball forward for people like you to come behind you and, and promoting that push for diversity and inclusion, which is so important to the future of this industry and this profession.
Carey Smith:
Yeah. So inclusion and diversity is one of Parsons', six core values. And it's obviously very important to me being a woman in, in the engineering field. So when I first joined the company, about five years ago, we stood up a diversity at the time it was called diversity and inclusion council. Today we call it diversity equity and inclusion council. Um, that has been one of the best initiatives in the company with many people, volunteering to participate. It's very active. We have ambassadors at each of our major locations across the company, and we also I will highlight, um, and promote it all the way up through our board. In fact, if you look at our board today, our board is about 40% diverse. So this is truly something that we take throughout the organization at all levels. We measure ourselves on diversity goals and we make sure that we're achieving the metrics. And the objective is really to try and make sure that every employee feels engaged at Parsons and is able to contribute fully.
Linda Bauer Darr:
Yeah, that is, um, that it, it sounds like, you know, it's, it was a, was a seed and it's grown and it's taking on more kind of speed and kind of heft as time goes along. And I met, you know, the way that you set it up, you described having an ambassador at each location, you know, with the company, the size of Parsons. It can't all come from you. I know you have pressure to be everywhere at once, right. At all these different locations, um, to try to kind of share your me message and your passion and your vision for Parsons. So how do you keep those ambassadors. kind of on message and how much do they have, um, kind of free reign to do their thing? How do, how do you package it all together with the company as large as yours with these ambassadors? Is it all these separate locations?
Carey Smith:
So we set up specific goals that we're gonna do as a, at the company level. So a goal might be one year we wanna improve mentoring across the company. A goal might be that we set up enterprise business resource groups. So they're basically affinity groups. And once we sort of have the corporate objectives, then we flow those down to each of the ambassadors. And the ambassadors do have the authority to do what makes sense in their local area, because each area, as you know, particularly in the engineering field is different. It's a lot different if I'm at a facility in Virginia versus a facility in California versus facility in Florida, right. So they can create events and activities that are meaningful to their particular location.
Linda Bauer Darr:
How do you choose who these ambassadors are gonna be? Do they have to represent a diverse constituency to begin with? Or how do you choose them?
Carey Smith:
We let them volunteer. Okay. Um, and we think that's the best way, because if you're selecting people, then they might not really be the right person for the job and might not put as much into it. So we really say, if we have a major site, let's say in New York city, and we have several hundred people working there, we'll have a volunteer on who wants to be the ambassador.
Linda Bauer Darr:
That's great. So we have at ACEC a Diversity Equity Inclusion and Belonging Committee. And I think it's like you, I mean, it started out the concept was inclusion and diversity, and it just continues to grow and obviously belonging and, and equity. Um, you know, with this new legislation, equity is much more important. But one of the things that has been interesting as this concept has grown and our involvement has deepened is how, how do you build the leadership of an effort like that? Because if it only people from, you know, diverse backgrounds, gender diversity, ethnic diversity, age, diversity, whatever, um, you might be missing out on the important buy-in that you need for, you know, that, that fever, if you will, the positive fever of really, you know, promot diversity and inclusion throughout the industry, uh, for that fever to grow. So, you know, we have had, we have, a couple of white men that are helping to lead this effort for us.
Linda Bauer Darr:
It so happens that they also happen to be CEOs of these, you know, some, some very significant firms that have taken this and really run with it. So, um, I would agree with you that, you know, it's the people that really have the most passion, but you need to make sure that it's people that have those experiences having been in the minority in some way, shape or form, but it's also the people that represent kind of, you know, the broader population of that particular industry or profession, because if they're not buying in, then not much is gonna change. So it really takes...
Carey Smith:
And ultimately to me, it comes down to diversity of thought and to get diversity of thought, you need engagement from everybody in your population, regardless of background.
Linda Bauer Darr:
And, and I think diversity of experience, you know, diverse experiences lead to that diverse thought. So we could go on about that forever, but we have something a little bit timely to talk about. And that's the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act that, you know, it really has got this whole industry buzzing. We're excited. This is a transformational piece of legislation. Um, I've never seen anything like this in my lifetime. I was born after the Interstate Highway System was, you know, conceived and built. So, um, this, but this is akin to that. It, it it's that big. I know that you all are really embracing the opportunities and you've got your own unique kind of spin on it, a campaign, um, that kind of plays off of the Build Back Better concept, but that is called Build Back Smarter. That's focused on tying traditional infrastructure with technology and innovation. It's great idea. I mean, in a nutshell, it's your grandfather's infrastructure, right? I mean, let's not do it the way that, you know, we've been doing it in the past because society and our planet and, you know, the way people, the digital world that we're in right now, people do things way differently. And so you need to, we need to adapt. And so engineers are leading the way on that. So tell me a little bit about how you all are doing.
Carey Smith:
So we're very, very excited about the infrastructure bill. It aligns extremely well with Parson's portfolio, whether it's transportation, including work that we do in rail and transit airports, ports, the water wastewater also ties into our portfolio - broadband, and even the utilities work we're involved in, utilities, um, work as well. So we're excited about the bill and what it means for our country. Also highlight too, that we're seeing a lot of growth in global infrastructure. So beyond the United States, there's a lot of spend that's being done in Canada, as well as the Middle East. So for pars, it's a really important time for the infrastructure portion of our business, because we're an advanced technology company. We have two pieces of the business. We have a group that is focused on federal government and really develops advanced technology like artificial intelligence, data analytics capabilities.
Carey Smith:
We have some unique uses of drones and we do a lot of work in cybersecurity. So we have the ability to build back smarter because we take our advanced technology capabilities. We apply those to the infrastructure side of the business. So if you think about some examples would be instead designing roads and highways for a 30 year lifespan or bridges tunnels, dams, how do you design them for a hundred year lifespan? You include sensors that can perform monitoring and basically give you better predictability. How do you use drones to be able to do inspection of bridges? How do you apply artificial intelligence to a system that does advanced traffic management to be able to get better predictability on accidents? When things would be cleared up, people moving around more safely, um, use of sensors for things like an intelligent intersection. You know, our intersections were kind of set and they basically didn't change for like three to five years now, post COVID we've got whole different traffic patterns. So how do we use the intelligent intersection so that they change dynamically and allow responders the ability to get through. So to encapsulate all that, it really means Build Back Smarter. Um, this is the opportunity to Build Back Smarter and really design for the future.
Linda Bauer Darr:
I love that. And, um, one of the reasons I love that so much is because it really showcases engineering, right? I mean, people talk about the Recovery Act, you know, during the Obama administration and shovel ready projects. And as you know, that, you know, that's a, that's a red flag for engineers when they hear shovel ready projects, because it means there's not gonna be a lot of thought going into, you know, laying down that asphalt and concrete, this is in a lot of people's views, you know, much better use of our funds because it does promote the sustainability. The long-term project development that you know, is, we're not gonna have to redo, you know, five years down the road.
Carey Smith:
Right.
Linda Bauer Darr:
You know, under having that predictability, having those sensors kind of accelerating our, um, you know, the, the way that we use the infrastructure to promote mobility and, you know, our economic backbone, um, it's exciting. And so you guys are right at the crossroads of that.
Carey Smith:
Yeah. It is really exciting, even, you know, a couple other examples. If you think about airports of the future, how those will be reinvented post COVID, you know, the whole way from the time you get outta your car, you go into the airport, you check in, you do your baggage, you know, you might have integrated health screening combined with ticketing, um, the way you drive up to park, that can all be different. It can all be used of sensors. So I mean, everything in our life really can be reimagined. We like to say at Parsons, we create the future, and this truly an opportunity to create the future of infrastructure.
Linda Bauer Darr:
Yeah. You know, it's you think about what the origin of the need for a lot of this is, and to some extent, I think we've all been spoiled by Amazon over the years. You know, and the easy button, you know, those concepts of, I don't wanna work too hard for it. And in this digital environment, I can just push a button and all this has been calculated. And that entry to the airport is a great example of that. You know, we're all in a hurry. We don't wanna expend a lot of effort getting all the checks, you know, done just for us to get on a flight, um, you know, for engineers to come in and figure out how to do it. That's a great example of problem solving that really is, you know, central to who our folks are as engineers.
Linda Bauer Darr:
So we are getting close to the end of our time here. I think I have a couple more points that I wanted to raise with you, and then, you know, Carey, anything you wanna raise this, uh, course, you know, I'd be, be happy to hear your views on what's going on and what you want us to know about what's happening at Parsons. But you know, you talked already a bit about cyber security and cyber protection of critical infrastructure assets. This is so important. It's important for our nation's safety. It's important for our economic safety. It's important for, you know, the privacy of consumers. You know, and we've, we've heard about so many engineering firms who have, suffered because of the bad guys that are out there. And, you know, they know that without our kind of hands in the middle of so many of these really critical projects that if we are vulnerable, they're gonna find a way in. And so you guys are really working big in that space. I'd like to hear a little bit more about, you know, how you think you all are gonna be able to kind of move the ball forward in that regard.
Carey Smith:
Yes. If you look at the Department of Homeland Security has defined 16 critical infrastructure sectors, and the way we approach it from Parsons is we look at areas that are highly regulated, that are high threat driven in areas that we have domain expertise, because the intersection of those three pillars is basically, um, we're differentiated in those markets. And those are the gonna be the ones that get the most funding as well, because they're gonna be the most under attack. So if you step back and look out at the 16 segments we play in transportation, we play in utilities, we play in facilities area and also in healthcare to just to name a few of the sectors. And what we can do that is unique is because we do have extensive cybersecurity capabilities. We understand, for example, how an airport operates. We understand how a port operates. We understand how a utility company operates. So we're best equipped to be able to provide that cybersecurity protection. And I would say it goes beyond cyber for information technology, because also have the operational technology component. So if you think about SCADA systems or industrial control systems, those were put into those sectors, basically without security in mind at the time that those were designed. So Parsons is able to come in and approach protecting different sectors, both from an IT perspective, as well as an OT perspective.
Linda Bauer Darr:
Right, so you know, it's, you said, those systems were put in place without kind of a consideration for security. They were put in place for efficiency. Right. And, you know, because we were on everything now we want it yesterday. Right. So now we're at a position we're in a position where we're really having to kind of go back and, and reinvent aren't we?
Carey Smith:
Yeah. Most definitely protect things, legacy systems that are out there. But most importantly, design with security in mind, as you put new systems, greenfield systems in place.
Linda Bauer Darr:
So, um, just take a minute, if you will, and tell me about some of the exciting projects you all are involved in right now, if you were gonna say, you know, here is the poster child of how Parsons is involved in innovative engineering solutions that, um, we want the world's policymakers to know about what kinds of things fall into that category for you?
Carey Smith:
Well, so I, I would say, um, starting with critical infrastructure sector, one of our biggest projects would be the LAX modernization program. That's an example of where we're a program, basically, an owner engineer, a program management office, providing support to what is probably the largest aviation infrastructure project that's underway. If I move around the world to the middle east, we're involved in some exciting programs, there, an example would be NEOM, which is a new city industrial city. That's gonna be built on the Red Sea. And NEOM is gonna be basically designed from the sand-up. So there's gonna be a new airport, for example, that's gonna be put into NEOM. We won a program management job there, and we're in the process of pursuing the airport opportunity. If I move around the world a little bit further up into Canada, we're involved in some of the major rail projects up in Canada - Edmonton Light Rail Transit would be a big one. And then on the federal side of our house, I mentioned cybersecurity's a big area for us, and that is to tied infrastructure, but we do a lot of work in the space area in terms of integrated launch, space, ground systems, and space, situational awareness. And then we're involved in some missile defense projects as well.
Linda Bauer Darr:
Wow. That really is a very diverse portfolio. That's gotta be a lot to keep up with it. One thing I'm noticing as you're talking about these projects, all are, you know, big and obviously impactful, hugely consequential, but if I am a 16 or 17 year old, and I'm thinking about going to college, and I'm thinking about changing the world, I wanna look at an engineering that is doing something that I know is gonna make the world safer or make the world ultimately healthier, you know, dealing with, for example, climate change, extreme weather issues. I think these are the kinds of motivating concepts where, you know, the people that are coming outta high school and college these days are saying, you know, how can I, how can I make a difference? You know, I don't wanna, I don't wanna just go to a nine to five job and, you know, sign a time sheet and push around a bunch of paper. I wanna make a difference. So what do you have at Parsons that's going on right now where you think the young people of today would be really inspired?
Carey Smith:
Yeah. So first our motto is we deliver a better world at Parsons. We deliver a world that is safer that is more efficient. And that's true whether it's the federal side of our business or the critical infrastructure side of the business. And what I would say to somebody at age is we're all about creating the future. I was asked recently, well, what company do you wanna emulate? And I said, we don't wanna emulate anybody. We're creating a company that is designing the future, whether it's future or transportation, or the future of defense or the future of cyber. That's what we're about. So I would say to a young person, if you wanna create the future, come join Parsons because that's what we're gonna be doing.
Linda Bauer Darr:
Right. That's and that's exciting who wouldn't wanna do that, right Jeff?
Host:
Absolutely.
Linda Bauer Darr:
That brings us to...
Host:
Well, um, right about right about time, actually, and that was a fantastic conversation. And I think it's a good example of the diversity of the work that, Parsons is engaged in and our, and our industry is engaged in, and for those listening who may not be completely familiar with engineering or, you know, it's that wide gamit of the services, the intellectual power of trying to solve complex challenges that make your lives better, uh, our lives better and also our nation more secure and productive. And, and I think from the conversation, it is, it's a good explanation that Parson is directly engaged in all of those fronts. And then of course it was a great opportunity to hear from two executives on, you know, really with this great opportunity with the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act and, and all of this potential that is there because now that the policy is done, we've moved to implementation and that's where it comes into our field to actually make policy translate into something tangible.
Host:
But this is, this has been great. And I do appreciate the time Carey that you've given us. And we look forward to working with Parsons as an active member of the ACEC community in the months and years ahead. And Linda, thank you very much for adding your expertise. And it's, it's always great to take a backseat to allow people who are actually doing things to talk about it. So thank you very much. And again, this has been Engineering Influence, a podcast from the American Council of Engineering Companies, and we'll see you again real soon.
 
 

Overcoming Awkward in Business Development

Engineers are often stereotyped as being introverts. Working on a design project, this can be a strength, but when it comes to business development--which is often critical to moving up in the firm--they may struggle.
Monica Parkin, author of Overcoming Awkward, came on the program to talk about how introverted people can change their approach to social situations--both on the job and in their community.
A successful businessperson and speaker, Parkin offers a step-by-step process by which people can overcome their innate shyness and improve their business development skills. 
Click here to view the book.
 

Podcast Special: Reps. Don Bacon and Brian Fitzpatrick Discuss the IIJA

Congressman Don Bacon (NE-2) and Congressman Brian Fitzpatrick (PA-1) joined the program for a discussion about the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act and their votes that helped pass a generational investment in the built environment.  
Transcript:
ACEC: 
Welcome to the Engineering Influence podcast from the American Council of Engineering Companies. Today, I am very pleased to be bringing you two members of Congress who were instrumental in helping get the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act across the finish line. Congressman Don Bacon, representing Nebraska's Second Congressional District, and Congressman Brian Fitzpatrick, representing Pennsylvania's First Congressional District, join us today on the show. As a matter of introduction, Congressman Bacon was elected in 2016 and represents Nebraska's second congressional District. Now prior to serving in the House,, Congressman Bacon served as an officer in the Air Force, specializing in electronic warfare intelligence and reconnaissance. He served 16 assignments with the Air Force, including four deployments in the Middle East, including Operation Iraqi Freedom. He retired with the rank of Brigadier General and currently serves on the House Armed Services Committee and the House Agricultural Committee. 
ACEC: 
Congressman Brian Fitzpatrick represents Pennsylvania's First Congressional District. Prior to his election, he served as both an FBI special agent and as a federal prosecutor fighting both domestic and international political corruption and supporting global counter-terrorism and counter-intelligence efforts, including being embedded with U.S. Special Forces as part of Operation Iraqi Freedom. In the 117th Congress, Brian was elected co-chair of the bipartisan Problem Solvers Caucus, having previously served as the vice-chair. He is the ranking member on the House Foreign Affairs Subcommittee on Europe, Energy, the Environment, and Cyber, and was appointed by House Leadership to currently serve on the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence and as a Commissioner on the Commission on Security and Cooperation in Europe, also known as the U.S. Helsinki Commission. Additionally, Congressman Fitzpatrick serves on the House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee, a committee near and dear to our hearts. Thank you both for joining us today. 
ACEC: 
I'd like to start off, with Congressman Bacon first, and then Congressman Fitzpatrick. For our audience, who may not be well acquainted with Nebraska or Pennsylvania, can you tell us a little bit about your districts? 
Congressman Bacon: 
My district is Omaha and the south suburbs, so we have about 700,000 in about a county and a half, but it's really Omaha suburbs. In the next cycle, with redistricting, I gain another county. It's an urban/suburban community. It's one of the most purple districts in the country, officially R plus one. It's a railroad junction and an interstate junction, so it's very infrastructure intensive. 
ACEC: 
And Congressman Fitzpatrick. I have to admit full transparency. I am from Doylestown, Pennsylvania, so I am Bucks County all the way. Of course I remember it fondly as the Eighth Congressional District, but tell us a little bit about the First. 
Congressman Fitzpatrick: 
I didn't know you were from Doylestown, but I knew you're familiar with the area. So, the First District is the Philly suburbs. It's all Bucks County, which is the county just to the north of the city line of Philadelphia. The southern part of my district borders the city line of Philadelphia. The entire east side of my district borders, the river, crossing over into New Jersey. And then about 12 percent of my district is the adjacent county to the west Montgomery County. So I have sort of the central part, that's adjacent to Bucks County. Lke Don, we have about 740,000 constituents or so,. We're actually losing a district in Pennsylvania, going to 18 to 17, so my district will grow by about another 40,000 or so., 
ACEC: 
Do you think you're going to grow west or north? 
Congressman Fitzpatrick: 
There are two maps. The House came out with a map that has me expanding my Montgomery county piece, and the State Senate came out with a map that has me picking up Northeast Philadelphia and also the northwestern part of Montgomery county. So two very different districts, 
ACEC: 
But two districts that were rely heavily on our infrastructure and the built environment. One of the things that I think is important to note here--and we hear it from our members, because I think that the way that this bill came to the floor and the way that House Leadership decided to tie the president's larger agenda together and to tie the infrastructure plan to Build Back Better--is that there's some misinformation out there that this is Build Back Better. It's not. This is a separate bill. This is hard infrastructure funding, that's both reauthorized funding and additional funding above that. There's some misunderstandings about the bill. What are the things you're hearing from your constituents that you really want to clarify, or misconceptions that you'd like to dispel? 
Congressman Bacon: 
I'll start off. Initially--and I think both Brian and I had this--we heard probably about 90 percent of the criticism was that it was a Build Back Better bill. Folks would say, "Hey, this bill passed amnesty for 11 million adults. You voted to support removing the Hyde Amendment and all the things that are in the Build Back Better bill." And I think we've done a pretty good job of poking that down. Another thing we heard was that only 10 percent of the bill is hard infrastructure, and that is not true. In fact, I've gone through it. I would say 94 percent of that bill is hard infrastructure. The rest of is doing toxic site cleanup on federal lands, which is also needed, by the way. And then we also heard this is a victory for Joe Biden. I think it's a victory for our country, a nd it could have been a victory for Republicans if our leadership would have responded more smartly, just to be blunt about it. 
Congressman Bacon: 
And I think the other area, which is more legitimate, is just worries about the deficit, and that's a legitimate area that we could go into. I have some perspectives on it, but those are the main areas of criticism, But early on, it was all Build Back Better. They are two totally separate bills, and which Brian and I both opposed. And in fact, Build Back Better has not passed yet out of the Senate, and it's probably going to be greatly changed by the time it does 
ACEC: 
Congressman, what are you hearing from your constituents in Pennsylvania? 
Congressman Fitzpatrick: 
Not surprisingly, all of us kind of heard the same thing. Don spelled it up perfectly. People confused and conflating the two different bills, which are two separate distinct bills. How anybody could argue that they're linked is beyond me. First of all, the Senate passed it on August 10th. House Leadership refused to put it on the floor because they weren't linking them, they were holding one hostage for another, and that's very different. But it passed and it's now signed into law, and the Build Back Better programs' fate remains very uncertain, at best. It has not been voted on. It has not been signed into law. A version was voted on in the House, which is dead on arrival in the Senate. That was more or less a messaging bill because reconciliation has to start in the House, so they just sent something over there to start the volley. But these bills are not linked. 
Congressman Fitzpatrick: 
In fact, I would submit to you, and you don't need to take my word for this, the moderate Democrat senators who are going to be outcome determinative in what, if any, passes the Senate with regard to reconciliation have told us that the passage of this bill actually will, in the worst case, lower the price tag significantly of the reconciliation bill, if not, obliterate it all together. So that's the reality. And yet there were so many people--and Don knows this--so many people who wanted to vote for this. The reason they didn't was because the politics wouldn't let them. And myself and Don and many of our other colleagues refused to allow politics to dictate how we vote. The easy thing to do would be to vote "No," and just go "Rah, rah, go party," right? That's not what we're about. We came here to help our country. And Don is absolutely right. If this would've been played the right way, this could have been a bipartisan victory altogether, but you can't make policy decisions based on who we win or loses politically. It's gotta be about whether America wins or loses. And if that bill came up tomorrow, I'd vote the same way. 
Congressman Bacon: 
Good policy is good politics. And our guys should have thought about that. I think in August, our team could have said, we want this bill on the floor right now, and we could have turned it to our advantage, but we, sort of ceded that. But in the end, infrastructure is needed for our GDP, exports, national security, public safety. and, as you mentioned, we haven't had a major investment in infrastructure in 40 years. And I'm the party of Lincoln? Also the party of the transcontinental railroad? And the party of Eisenhower, who did the interstate system? We should have embraced this. 
ACEC: 
That an important point to make. I mean, largely infrastructure investment has been a Republican core issue. It's constitutional, I remember when I was on TNI staff, we had that up there on the right side of the room, where in the Constitution on post roads, the constitutional underpinning for federal investment in infrastructure. And you're right, between the interstate highway system and the like, it's a core issue, and it was unfortunate to see it tied into this. 
Congressman Fitzpatrick: 
You hear a lot of talk about the big lie. I say the big lie this month was that only 11 percent of the infrastructure bill was real infrastructure. That is a provably false statement. Why anybody would say that, shame on them. Half of the bill, right off the bat, before we even get into the new parts, half of this bill was a standard five year surface transportation reauthorization, which sailed through the last Congress in 2016, when the GOP held the chamber. This has never been controversial. And the $550 billion supplemental, does so by recapturing unused COVID relief money, recapturing unused state unemployment insurance augmentation--that additional $300 a week that a lot of the state governors returned--and it doesn't open the tax code up at all. And just for comparison, we're talking about $550 billion additional over five years. China last year alone spent $3.7 trillion in infrastructure, outside of China. Outside of their country as part of the Belt and Road initiatives. So no matter how you want to slice this, we should all be focused in on the China issue. And look at it that way as well, because this is an investment in the nuts and bolts of our country. 
ACEC: 
You look at the numbers. Let's take Nebraska, for example. In the state, you have over 1,300 bridges and over 1,100 miles of highway in poor condition. You have commuting times going up across the country, Pennsylvania and Nebraska alike. You have money that's going to go specifically to improve surface infrastructure, that's going to improve people's lives, make it easier for economic development, open corridors for development, job opportunities, and growth. In our sector alone, we're looking at about 82,000 in direct employment, new jobs that will be created. And all the tax base that comes from that. If we don't invest in our surface infrastructure, we're we're pretty much shooting ourselves in the foot from a global competitive standpoint. During your discussions with your members and Congressman Fitzpatrick, I know you're part of the Problem Solvers Caucus, and you look at the issues. Did that resonate? Was there an understanding that this does actually create jobs and opportunity? 
Congressman Bacon: 
Absolutely. In our district, we have some of the largest trucking companies in the country. We also have the largest railroad company, Union Pacific. In other words, roads, bridges, railroads and very important.And we have the stuff for airports also in there, but I would also suggest that even the things that aren't part of Nebraska are still important for Nebraska. Ports and locks are very important for agriculture exports. We're one of the leading exporters for agriculture. Nebraska is the largest exporter of beef of all 50 states. It's very important to have good ports and locks for the agriculture sector. 
Congressman Bacon: 
As I look back, every major industry in Omaha supported this bill. The farm bureau were very much in support. The cattlemen. You had the Chamber, all the building trades were there. It's interesting to have unions and chamber together on this bill. The manufacturers were for it, the equipment operators and the equipment distributors. I can go through every major industry there, and they were supportive of this. But all of them, for the most part, maybe there were one or two exceptions, opposed the Build Back Better bill. So the business leaders and the economic folks, and the labor folks knew the importance of this bill for Nebraska and what means, and I mentioned to our leadership, you're asking us to oppose a bill that every major industry supports. I took two polls, in both around 70 percent of the citizens supported it. I said, we're on the wrong side of this issue. 
ACEC: 
Absolutely. And even the funding that's not directly to build roads or to restore bridges, such as resiliency and resilient infrastructure, those are things that also pay dividends into the future. I know anecdotally, you know, there are high rain events up in New York and that goes down the Delaware River and the eastern portion of Bucks County floods. And you have other issues, Congressman Bacon that you experience in Nebraska as well. If we're able to make our infrastructure, not only our surface infrastructure, but our communications and our electrical distribution systems, more resilient, and of course, resilient not just to weather events, but also for cybersecurity, we're going be more secure as a country. 
Congressman Bacon: 
Nebraska's rated 48th on rural broadband, so we'll benefit there. We have a lot of lead pipes, so the drinking water infrastructure part was also very important. And so literally these aspects of the bill are very important in Nebraska. 
ACEC: 
I think Nebraska is going to get an allocation of a hundred million dollars for rural broadband. That's a significant investment, especially now post COVID, it's not a luxury anymore. It's a requirement, not just for education, but for economic development,, and that's critically important, Pennsylvania, along the same lines, gets about one hundred million for broadband coverage across the state. There are about 394,000 Pennsylvanians who lack access to broadband, so connecting those people is going to be critically important. Congressman Fitzpatrick, I'll start with you. Is there a project in the district, or an area that you would really like to see improved, transportation-wise for your constituents? 
Congressman Fitzpatrick: 
Where do we begin? You know our region. The Northeast Corridor has the most infrastructure, the largest infrastructure and also the oldest infrastructure. We're heavily reliant on rail, on bridges, on tunnels, on ports. So certainly there's all of that. Obviously I-95 runs through our district. State routes, like 611, run through our district. But one that not many people realize, bit both me and my brother before me are very focused on the PFAS issue. There is a big PFAS remediation component to this. That's been a huge issue for the central part of our district, the area in and around, the Willow Grove Naval Air Station, where you had these AFFF firefighting foams that have PFAS and PFOA in it that have just wreaked havoc on the water supplies of so many people in that region. A big part of this bill finally addresses PFAS remediation, which was the big component of that problem. So the central part of our district is going to benefit tremendously from this. 
ACEC: 
Absolutely. That's been an issue for decades. And finally having that addressed is a significant real-life community improvement. It's going to impact people's lives, without question. Congressman Bacon, for your constituents, what do you see? 
Congressman Bacon: 
Well, our constituents are going to see benefits primarily in roads and bridges. As you said, we have 1,300 bridges that are in Nebraska, and some of those are right around Omaha. So the roads, the bridges, the rail, the airport funding is all going to have a direct impact. And of course for the rest of Nebraska, the rural broadband will be there. We have a lot of lead pipes in Omaha that we have to switch out. So there's 200 million to replace the lead pipes for drinking water. And that's also going be a big deal for our district. 
Congressman Bacon: 
But as already mentioned, I think more broadly, the ports and locks. They're not connected to Nebraska, but boy they're certainly connected to our economy. And I've got to give a lot of our folks back home this little tidbit on locks. Our locks are 80 to 90 years old. They're a third of the size of Brazil's that they're putting in right now. And we could grow corn and soybeans, beef and pork, more affordably than anybody else in the world, but if you can't ship it and get it to the right place for exports at a competitive price, you're gonna lose that competitive advantage.So if we want to lead the world in exports in these areas, our logistics have to be updated. And so I think more broadly that it's not just what's being put in our, district; it's our economy as a whole that's impacted. 
ACEC: 
That's a very good point that you raise. At the beginning of the month, we had a symposium down in Charleston on intermodal and logistics. Essentially dealing with all the supply chain pressures that we're having and experiencing now. The point you raise is a good one. When people of think of ports, you think, okay, you've got Long beach, you've got Charleston, and you have a couple of seaside ports. But you also have your inland ports. You have the importance of having a strong logistics system to actually move goods to market, so farmers in Nebraska can export out from areas on the East Coast. It's critically important. And it helps keep America competitive, and especially competitive in a fairly competitive global agriculture market. Congressman Fitzpatrick, you're a member of the Transportation and Infrastructure Committee. This was, of course, a major accomplishment on that side of the committee's jurisdiction. Coming up, I believe the committee might be considering another Water Resources Development Act bill. What do you see coming up from the committee? 
Congressman Fitzpatrick: 
Water is something that they wanted to take on separately for a whole host of reasons. I don't know where that's going to stand now that we just passed a major infrastructure rebuild, if this is gonna be what's next for them or not. I know for Congress as a whole, obviously there are some other things that they're focused on right now. I can tell you our Problem Solvers are very focused on issues regarding the Chinese communist party and issues regarding the semiconductor industry, which is incredibly important. If we fall behind in that industry, we've got major problems going forward. Whoever owns the semiconductor industry is going to own the future. And that's not just with regard to jobs. Literally everything we use is now computerized and digitized, including vehicles, including everything, and we used to produce 35 to 40 percent of the world's semiconductor supply. We're now at 12 percent; Europe is at 8 percent. Asia is 70 percent, and of that 70 percent, 30 percent is in Taiwan. So that's obviously one of the many reasons why we have to keep our eye on the situation over there. Our caucus met with Pat Gelsinger, the CEO of Intel, a great domestic semiconductor producer and manufacturer. And he's begging us, to just allow them to be competitive in this country, both through our tax code, our regulatory code and things like the CHIPS Act, where we're going to infuse and invest in that industry, given how important it is to our future. So that's what I see as coming up next. 
ACEC: 
And again there's always an infrastructure angle. When I was with Congressman Schuster back in the ninth district of Pennsylvania, right in the center of the state, we would say, you don't get economic development unless you flush a toilet. You're not going to attract a manufacturing base, unless there is the infrastructure. and not just the surface infrastructure to get employees to their work, but to get distribution there. That's what attracts it. So, if we're able to build out and make it easier for goods to get the market, we might be able to attract more domestic manufacturing and have that stay in the United States. But you're right, tied to that is a favorable regulatory and tax environment. Congressman Bacon, what do you see coming up coming up next? 
Congressman Bacon: 
On the infrastructure front, I'll defer to Brian on that, because he's on that committee. For me, I have a lot of infrastructure in the Hass that we have to continue working on. We have five bases that were destroyed through hurricanes or floods or earthquakes. So we're continuing to try to get these five bases back up to speed. So, that's our military infrastructure. But if you look at what we did with this bill, and I've looked at some studies, I think we only bought about half of what we needed to do. It's a good half, and we're gonna work that half and it's going to take four or five years to get this money spent. But we have to realize that we only paid off about half of what it's going to take to get our infrastructure back up to speed. 
Congressman Bacon: 
One of the studies I was looking at, and we have to be candid here--and Brian touched on this before--right now we're spending 2 percent of GDP on infrastructure. Europe is at 5 percent, and China is at 9 percent. I think we have to reevaluate how we're going to do this over the long haul. It shouldn't just be a four-year bill, and okay, now we've caught up. I think we probably need to readjust our baseline for what we need to be doing for infrastructure. If you look back over 40 years, for the first 20, we were sort of hanging even, but when you look at the last 20, the gas tax has not kept up with the costs. Inflation has eroded the gas tax revenues, but the roads have gotten more costly to fix. And so, over the last 20 years, we've fallen behind pretty quickly. And so I think we have to reevaluate. What do we want to do to keep up with our infrastructure? We shouldn't just say to put duct tape on it and fix it, but let's find a way to sustain it. 
ACEC: 
Absolutely. And then the growth of electric car market, of course that doesn't directly pay into the user fee. And you have to look at different innovative financing tools to do that. 
Congressman Bacon: 
Our miles-per-gallon used to be 15 miles per gallon or something. Now a lot of cars, especially with the hybrids it's double or triple that. And so we're bringing in a lot less gas revenue. And you're right, electrical cars are not paying in at all. And our roads and highways, in the meantime, are taking a beating. Amd our bridges. So we've got to figure out how to fix it. 
ACEC: 
It's a good thing that we have two good members of Congress who are actually going to be working on the problem, doing the problem solving, and moving good policy forward. And for that, we do appreciate both of your leadership, 
Congressman Bacon: 
Brian is our fearless leader on the Problem Solvers. He's Mr. Chairman. 
Congressman Fitzpatrick: 
And Don's our fearless leader on Main Street. 
ACEC: 
It's nice because we hear so much about discord and disagreement in Congress, but there are members who are focused on tackling the problems that we face and creating solutions. I think that what you mentioned at the outset, that good policy like this should carry a lot of other members to support it. So your leadership is a welcome thing these days. 
Congressman Bacon: 
If you read about Abraham Lincoln, he was a big follower of Henry Clay and Henry Clay wanted the American system, which was focused on waterways and roads. And they took a lot of heat from the other party. If you look at the arguments back then, they're almost the same now. Our country needs to be tied together well, and again, it's all about interstate commerce. 
ACEC: 
I do appreciate your time today. It's getting close to the Christmas season, and everybody's trying to get their last things done and votes in, so I do appreciate it. Thank you very much for supporting the legislation. Of course, the engineering industry is very interested in getting to work on delivering on the funding that's been passed in the bill. And I do appreciate both of your time today. Thank you. And again, this has been the Engineering Influence podcast from the American Council of Engineering Companies. We'll see you real soon.